Author Topic: Anatomy of a suicide dweeb.  (Read 2363 times)

Offline Apache

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Anatomy of a suicide dweeb.
« Reply #90 on: May 27, 2003, 08:13:49 AM »
rshubert,

You are mis-understanding my position. You continue to refer to wingman tactics, missions, jabo techniques, etc. Thats not my point at all.

Allow me to attempt to illustrate.

Beet1e is in a heavy hog, on his way to jabo my field. He see's me coming for him. You know what beet1e will do? Depending on his position relative to me, to his target and a myriad of other factors, he will either nose down and attempt his jabo run, then come back up to defend himself or he will dump his ord and the fight is on. I will play with this type of virtual pilot all day long.

The suicide dweeb on the other hand will roll over and dive to the target, full speed, no matter the circumstances... and splatter himself all over the tarmac. He will continue this over and over and over. He and his ilk will rinse and repeat until eventually they have completely and totally destroyed a field, not taking into consideration that they want to use said field after capture. Do you believe they think about that? Nope. They just want to see stuff blow up. That not only limits my enjoyment in the game, but for thier own country mates as well. IMO of course.

Offline lazs2

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Anatomy of a suicide dweeb.
« Reply #91 on: May 27, 2003, 08:17:49 AM »
relax hunbert it's a BBS... a freaking BBS!  Here is another of the big AH secrets for you...  I am gonna let the cat out of the bag and save you a couple of months... maybe years...

The strat is a hamster wheel.. it is boring and simplistic and if you never had any flight sim skill... you will never get any doing the buildning battling thing... if you ever had any it will atrophy if you do the building battling thing.  

I don't know where you get me calling anyone a "turd"... The analodgy was that one thing can indeed spoil the fun for a lot of people if it is offensive enough... so far as watching what I say.. I am VERY careful of what I say... I mean every word.   If I said it then I probly don't mind if it comes back to me.  If you are trying to make some sort of childish vieled threat then It goes double for you.

beetle, beetle... shame.. where have I ever said that there was no need for strat?   No... I only want aspects of it balanced so that it's affects are not like the previously mentioned turd in the swimming facility... I think you would agree that if the atom bomb were availabel in AH that many players would use it... Would you call that whining if people said it was unbalancing?   certaonly not... but... many of the gameyer aspects of the so called field porkage are like that to us furballers... it is all a matter of degree.

as far as Apache... He is smart enough to know that if he dissagrees with me then... he is probly wrong and will eventually change his mind.   so... he stays open minded...you should take his example.  come towards the light beetle..  I mean think about it... the best you can do for an a buddy is..... hubert.
lazs

Offline rshubert

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Hamster Wheel??
« Reply #92 on: May 27, 2003, 08:51:53 AM »
What's NOT a hamster wheel about furballing? What do you learn beyond basic ACM tactics?  What is your strategy other than to shoot down as many planes as possible?

I say again--thumb candy.  That's what you're looking for, and you get it from furballing.  Your whines are about the time it takes to get to the fight, that the fight is ended prematurely when the base is porked, etc., etc., etc.  

I can't change your opinion, you can't change mine.  Why don't you just shut up and fly?  Preferably in the duelling arena that HT set up for just your sort of encounter.  No troubling strat, no suicide dweebs to bother you, no GV attacks on your favorite airfield.  Sounds like furballer heaven, to me.

I shoot competitively, and the shooting confederation I belong to went through just such an argument several years ago--the "martial artists" wanted a combat pistol match that was as close to reality as possible, and the "gamesmen" wanted a fast-action game.  Both sides got what they wanted, when the "martial artists" formed their own group, adn went their own way.  My point is that both are valid.  I belong to both groups, and enjoy both styles of activity.  In AH, I like to shoot down planes, and also like to destroy stuff on the ground--although I'm not very good at it yet.

Why not follow their example, and do your own thing in a separate place, if the MA steamroller fuel porking base stealing strat game upsets your finely honed sensibilities.

GET THEE HENCE UNTO THE DUELLING ARENA, THOU ELITE KNIGHT OF THE AIR.  There thou shouldst enter the lists with thine opponent Noble Knights, and joust unto thy heart's content, untroubled by the knavish men-at-arms with their lowborn ways, ungentlemanly weapons,  and uncouth manner.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2003, 08:53:58 AM by rshubert »

Offline lazs2

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Anatomy of a suicide dweeb.
« Reply #93 on: May 27, 2003, 08:55:24 AM »
hurbert... the furball is ever changing.   I will not try to change your mind.  If you stick around long enough you will figure it out on your own.  

oh... I shoot a lot... I plink.   competition is with whoever I am with.   I shoot all kinds of guns at all kinds of targets at all kinds of distances and environments.   I am not dependant on a club to make shooting fun for me.   now... knowing how sensitive you are... this was not meant as an insult to your kind of shooting... it was meant to show you that someone who does his own gunsmithing and reloading and shoots thousands of rounds a year doesn't get bored 'furballing" with his guins... every plinking session is fun and different for me.... every competitive shooting session is the same.   It works that way in the game.  

I want HTC to provbide the arena... I will make the fun.   Like drex says... "all we need is a big blue box" .
lazs
« Last Edit: May 27, 2003, 09:00:48 AM by lazs2 »

Offline gofaster

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Re: Re: Re: Anatomy of a suicide dweeb.
« Reply #94 on: May 27, 2003, 09:00:03 AM »
Quote


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Montezuma:
Looks like you are the suicide dweeb.

Why aren't you trying harder to live by being a bail-out dweeb?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Response by Apache:
You should think before you type. Your first sentence contradicts the second.


Actually, it doesn't.  "Suicide" means you ride it in.  Kamikaze pilots committed suicide attacks against American carriers.  "Bailing out" means you go as far as you can until you lose a wing or an engine and have to abandon the plane.  Ens. George Gay was a bail-out dweeb at Midway.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2003, 09:03:28 AM by gofaster »

Offline rshubert

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And now back to the substance of the post...
« Reply #95 on: May 27, 2003, 09:21:46 AM »
Apache, my reaction is just the same as you assume beet1e's would be.  Drop ord and fight, or continue on mission?  Hard decision.  Will interference from defenders cause me to make a mistake?  Maybe yes, maybe no.  I'm still learning, and make mistakes.  I have never said I do (and never have done) an intentional suicide run.  I do high risk runs, and sometimes lose.  The result is the same, sometimes.  Face full of dirt, message from system about who got the real--or prox--kill.  I wish they would separate the prox kills out, so I could get a stat about how many times my own inexperience has "killed" me.  Not as often as the robo-ack, but often enough, especially in the early days.

Here's a reality check:

The allies lost 20% of the planes that went on the Schweinfurt (sp?) raids.  Even before the kamikaze attacks, many brave Japanese pilots flew off their carrier decks knowing that their chances of returning were not good.  Look at the movie "Memphis Belle".  It was a really big deal that they were the first crew to survive 25 missions, since most crews lasted only about 10 on average.

Have you ever been to that website on ACM tactics?  In it the author explains that real-life trainee pilots do ACM work before a-g work, since a-g work is very unforgiving. A mistake usually means a destroyed plane and a dead pilot.  That's one of the reasons the modern air force likes precision guided weapons so much--no dipping down into the flak where so many aircraft get destroyed.  Tell a WW2 or Vietnam pilot how "no skill" air to ground work is, and that not surviving is a reflection of the pilot's inability.  They will laugh at you.  They saw the world's finest pilots get picked off like ducks by the ground fire.  They went back in, day after day, because that was their mission.

It takes no courage at all for me to try to emulate their actions, since I am safe here at home in front of my computer.  I don't have to worry about really dying.  I also don't have the support structure they had, with escorts, intelligence, and a planned strategy.  I take risks they would not, to achieve my game goal.

Again, my original post's purpose was to illustrate the absurdity of your position.  You make assumptions about the motivations of other players that may or may not be correct.  You assume that your playing style is the only "good" or "correct" way to play the game, and ignore any argument to the contrary.  I wonder what the "original" suicide dweeb (your term, not mine) thinks of your play style?

I'll bet he doesn't even know you exist. He probably stays away from the furball, feeling that it is unproductive.  As Less said, it's all just a big hamster wheel.  You spin it clockwise, I spin it counterclockwise. (anticlockwise for you british guys).  Which is more valid?  Neither.  They are just different.

Offline Nifty

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Anatomy of a suicide dweeb.
« Reply #96 on: May 27, 2003, 09:35:20 AM »
I love the historic missions myself, rshubert.  That's why I fly Squad Ops on Friday nights, some Snapshots and I try to make the full scale scenarios that interest me.  There are also CAPs and Snapshots, but I rarely get to make those because, I just don't like flying AH on Saturday afternoons/evenings.  Missions succeed based solely on numbers in the MA, and even to an extent in the Special Events.  The CM's try to balance the numbers so there's an actual challenge to both sides.  Rarely do you find a balanced numbers attack in the MA (you find more of them in the CT, but sometimes even those attacks are porked.)  Either the attackers have enough to steamroller, or the defense has enough to easily wipe out the attackers.  Eventually, you see that Lazs is right.  Numbers win the strat game.  It's because we've got so many people in the arenas now, I guess.  Strat play wasn't always so numbers centric.

Every once in awhile, I'll load up some bombs in the MA to go help with a field capture.  Usually, I'll escort a squaddie's bomber though.  More often than that, I participate in strat by defending an overwhelmed base.  All those are pretty rare for me because if I'm in the MA or the CT, I'm looking for a fight.  I find good fights sometimes, though lately in the MA, if you're not in a fast plane, you're gonna get run down by someone.   I had a great Spit V vs Spit IX fight a week or so ago in the MA.   Lasted over a minute too, with no interference from anyone else.   It's rare to get a JABO run in the MA that includes a good fight like that.

Overall, I find better fights in the CT, although they aren't as varied during a given week.  Example, on Friday I had a lot of Spit XIV vs 109s and a couple of 190s.  Then on Saturday, I was the 109 (and a 190 here and there) against mostly Spit XIVs, tho I did have a nice 1 v 2 with 2 P-38's before a friend came in and saved me from them.  ;)  Understandable though, considering the availability of planes at given fields in the current setup.  

Point is, Lazs is right.  Numbers drive the strat in the MA, but that's ok.  There's nothing wrong with being a good JABO pilot.  It's just that the suicide JABO pilot has a much bigger impact on the arena and other players than the elite furballer does, or more apples to apples, the suicide furballer.
proud member of the 332nd Flying Mongrels, noses in the wind since 1997.

Offline Apache

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Re: And now back to the substance of the post...
« Reply #97 on: May 27, 2003, 09:48:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by rshubert
Apache, my reaction is just the same as you assume beet1e's would be.  Drop ord and fight, or continue on mission?  Hard decision.  Will interference from defenders cause me to make a mistake?  Maybe yes, maybe no.  I'm still learning, and make mistakes.  I have never said I do (and never have done) an intentional suicide run.  I do high risk runs, and sometimes lose.  The result is the same, sometimes.  Face full of dirt, message from system about who got the real--or prox--kill.  I wish they would separate the prox kills out, so I could get a stat about how many times my own inexperience has "killed" me.  Not as often as the robo-ack, but often enough, especially in the early days.

Here's a reality check:

The allies lost 20% of the planes that went on the Schweinfurt (sp?) raids.  Even before the kamikaze attacks, many brave Japanese pilots flew off their carrier decks knowing that their chances of returning were not good.  Look at the movie "Memphis Belle".  It was a really big deal that they were the first crew to survive 25 missions, since most crews lasted only about 10 on average.

Have you ever been to that website on ACM tactics?  In it the author explains that real-life trainee pilots do ACM work before a-g work, since a-g work is very unforgiving. A mistake usually means a destroyed plane and a dead pilot.  That's one of the reasons the modern air force likes precision guided weapons so much--no dipping down into the flak where so many aircraft get destroyed.  Tell a WW2 or Vietnam pilot how "no skill" air to ground work is, and that not surviving is a reflection of the pilot's inability.  They will laugh at you.  They saw the world's finest pilots get picked off like ducks by the ground fire.  They went back in, day after day, because that was their mission.

It takes no courage at all for me to try to emulate their actions, since I am safe here at home in front of my computer.  I don't have to worry about really dying.  I also don't have the support structure they had, with escorts, intelligence, and a planned strategy.  I take risks they would not, to achieve my game goal.

Again, my original post's purpose was to illustrate the absurdity of your position.  You make assumptions about the motivations of other players that may or may not be correct.  You assume that your playing style is the only "good" or "correct" way to play the game, and ignore any argument to the contrary.  I wonder what the "original" suicide dweeb (your term, not mine) thinks of your play style?

I'll bet he doesn't even know you exist. He probably stays away from the furball, feeling that it is unproductive.  As Less said, it's all just a big hamster wheel.  You spin it clockwise, I spin it counterclockwise. (anticlockwise for you british guys).  Which is more valid?  Neither.  They are just different.


My last post to you on this topic as I don't know what else to say to you that will get through to you.

I do not assume my playing style is the only good or correct way. How you arrive at that conclusion is beyond me.

You like attack missions. Good on ya. Whether you are good at it or not at present is no concern of mine and not the topic of debate. I will repeat, balanced (got that one from lazs) strat is a benefit to all concerned and promotes fights.

If it is your position that there are not intentional suicide's in the game, you are either being dishonest or you aren't paying attention.

One last thing. I get the feeling you believe jabo is beyond my ability. Tell you what. I'll park the Yak and break out the Hog, Jug and Typh again. We'll revisit after a month or so.

and good luck

Offline TopGunz

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Anatomy of a suicide dweeb.
« Reply #98 on: May 27, 2003, 10:30:49 AM »
lol

Offline rshubert

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Last comment, really!
« Reply #99 on: May 27, 2003, 04:11:08 PM »
You want "balance" but don't define it other than "make it harder to destroy strat".  I think it's hard enough now, and object to your changing the rules of the game to accomodate your favored play style.  It really is that simple.  We both play within the current rules.  I think they are not the problem.

Jabo is probably NOT beyond your ability.  The strat game seems to be outside your area of interest.  I didn't claim otherwise.

Thanks for listening, even if my point didn't get through.  We should agree to disagree.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2003, 04:15:44 PM by rshubert »