Author Topic: Going Frighteningly Too Far! (Read 1051 times)

hawk220 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 23, 2003, 12:23:40 PM »

Sandman

it depends on where you are..if you are going into a stadium and on private property they can perform searches..RANDOM being the operative word in this case. schools can perform searches without warrant too, backpacks, lockers etc..

Airhead · « **Reply #16 on:** May 23, 2003, 12:25:45 PM »

I looked at that pic and sported wood- therefore it's intrusive.

Syzygyone · « **Reply #17 on:** May 23, 2003, 12:26:11 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by -Concho-
I agree with you, no search should be conducted without due probable cause. What about all of the people that said they would give up rights for safety? probably the same folks that now think racial profiling is ok.

I don't think we should give up individual rights when it is possible for the individual to waive his rights.

quote:
Originally posted by hawk220
you have a reasonable expectation of privacy in your home..you don't have the same when boarding a jetliner.

Interesting point! Do you think you we waive our rights in order to get on an airplane these days? Do we still have an expectation of privacy on airplanes these days?

-Concho- · « **Reply #18 on:** May 23, 2003, 12:29:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Syzygyone
quote:
Originally posted by hawk220
you have a reasonable expectation of privacy in your home..you don't have the same when boarding a jetliner.

Interesting point! Do you think you we waive our rights in order to get on an airplane these days? Do we still have an expectation of privacy on airplanes these days?

The same expectaion you have standing out on the sidewalk in front of you house (on public property)

can you imagine the police in this situation just walking up, taking your back pack and rooting thru it?

hawk220 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 23, 2003, 12:30:59 PM »

Pretty Good Signature!

LOL, thanks Syz.. I got the idea when I put a bowl of bird seed out for a single nest of finches in a tree next to my deck..within an hour, every finch for miles around was having a riot on my deck for the seed. there had to be 40 trying to kill each other. I didn't know they were so aggressive!

Sandman · « **Reply #20 on:** May 23, 2003, 12:31:19 PM »

The real question is... "What do they do with the information?"

If the search results in some sort of legal action, I don't think it will stand up in court. If the search results in forfeit of the contraband and this is the "price of admission" into the school, sporting event, airliner, etc... then it's probably okay. (As much as I hate to admit it.)

Syzygyone · « **Reply #21 on:** May 23, 2003, 12:38:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by -Concho-
The same expectaion you have standing out on the sidewalk in front of you house (on public property)

can you imagine the police in this situation just walking up, taking your back pack and rooting thru it?

So you equate getting on an airliner with standing on the street?
I see a difference but perhaps you can elucidate how they are the same?

Syzygyone · « **Reply #22 on:** May 23, 2003, 12:39:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hawk220
Pretty Good Signature!

LOL, thanks Syz.. I got the idea when I put a bowl of bird seed out for a single nest of finches in a tree next to my deck..within an hour, every finch for miles around was having a riot on my deck for the seed. there had to be 40 trying to kill each other. I didn't know they were so aggressive!

We're tryin to attact Humingbirds now! Those are way cool!

hawk220 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 23, 2003, 12:44:44 PM »

So you equate getting on an airliner with standing on the street?

ya, its the same..you are in a public environment. you have public places ( or places where the public is allowed to pass) and private property.. your home (your car in wash state but no other states) its all about the expectation of privacy.. a reasonable person would not expect the cops to kick in the door of your home for no reason to search.. but in public you don't have the same expectaion of privacy..that is why people can take photos of you (traffic and security cameras and radar)

-Concho- · « **Reply #24 on:** May 23, 2003, 12:50:29 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Syzygyone
So you equate getting on an airliner with standing on the street?
I see a difference but perhaps you can elucidate how they are the same?

syz, I know you know a hell of alot more about this than I do.

This is just how I see it. You are in a public place. Expectation was explained to me as an envelope. If you are on your property the envelope is larger, anything that is not in plain sight. Your car (where I am familiar with the 4th amm.) once again, all but pain sight or probable cause. you car is different due to the fact it is on wheels and there are certain instances that you don't need a warrant. If you are on foot, you have an expectation to privacy to your personal belongings (not in plain sight, again).

I think airline inspectors should be held to the same standards as anyone else. Requesting consent to search. If the person denies consent, that is one more step to building probable cause.

I think this is all going to be courts to decide in the not so distant future.

capt. apathy · « **Reply #25 on:** May 23, 2003, 02:08:38 PM »

the thing is just because airliners where used in 9/11 doesn't make them a special case.

just being in a public place you have the potential to harm others. any where you and 'others' are together. (think palistinain suicide bomber)

airline saftey consecions are just a 'foot in the door', soon these weaker civil rights will aply to other topics besides anti-terrorism and airline safety. The 'patriot act' (

who was the sarcastic bastard that picked that name for an act that is anything but patriotic) is a huge leap in that direction.

these scanners should only be used when there is enough probable cause to justify strip searches.

midnight Target · « **Reply #26 on:** May 23, 2003, 02:26:47 PM »

Quote

you have a reasonable expectation of privacy in your home..you don't have the same when boarding a jetliner.

Actually Concho, I think we are very close to agreement on this issue. The X-ray sensors can and should be used when a probable cause exists. I'm sure you searched that ladies panties with good reason...

And Hawk.. I also think that you have the same expectation of privacy "UNDER YOUR CLOTHING" no matter where you are. I sure don't want to scare some screener when they find out why I got that "Stallion" nickname.

lazs2 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 23, 2003, 02:49:51 PM »

real life... right now the cops have trucks that have sensor equipment in them that can "sniff" out meth labs.. The scent of meth coming from a house is enough probable cause to search the house.
lazs

Syzygyone · « **Reply #28 on:** May 23, 2003, 02:52:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
Actually Concho, I think we are very close to agreement on this issue. The X-ray sensors can and should be used when a probable cause exists. I'm sure you searched that ladies panties with good reason...

And Hawk.. I also think that you have the same expectation of privacy "UNDER YOUR CLOTHING" no matter where you are. I sure don't want to scare some screener when they find out why I got that "Stallion" nickname.

ROFLLMFAO!

Okay, okay! I give! Tahg wins.

But you should know that 1) I've never searched a pair of ladies panties when she wasn't wearing them, and 2) I've never searched a pair of ladie's panties without plenty good cause, especially when she was still wearing them.

And no, I don't pretend to know a whole lot more about these issues. That's why I posted them as questions, not statements. Many, both in and outside government, will be debating them for years to come.

In all honesty though, when I posted this, I expected to get much more of a response to the grossness of the xrayed subject than to the subtantive issue. Just goes to show you you can't peg the AH mindset! LOL!:)

capt. apathy · « **Reply #29 on:** May 23, 2003, 03:11:42 PM »

Quote

real life... right now the cops have trucks that have sensor equipment in them that can "sniff" out meth labs.. The scent of meth coming from a house is enough probable cause to search the house.
lazs

perfectly reasonable and not a violation at all. some of the chemicals have gone airborne and are no longer on the property. these are detected and more than enough probable cause to search.

the big difference I see is that these detect things that are eminating from the property. however the body scanners pass low level x-rays through you. IMO it's a huge difference between something that is passive (chemical 'sniffers' wether for meth labs or bomb detectors) and an active search by passing energy rays through someones body, or checking under their clothes.