Author Topic: Healthcare (Read 1275 times)

mietla · « **Reply #15 on:** May 26, 2003, 02:31:55 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SOB
Mietla, you are an idiot.

SOB

SOB said so, I afraid I am.

On a serious side, do you think that it is possible to provide an "everybody is eligible", sustainable and high quality healhcare in the USA?

Explain how?

How much do you think it would cost (percentage of the GNP)?

Who would pay for it (because it is obviously not free)?

How (and if) would you stop the rest of the world coming here to get it?

It's not that I do not want "free" healhcare. I would love it, but whatever you say it is not free. All you can do is to shift the burden from the user of the service to "the other guy" (who is probably filthy rich so who cares).

If you are talking about pooling the resources and averaging the risks, it is called insurance.

If you are talking about everybody gets a treatment he wishes to get, I'm out, you are dreaming.

Right now we have a minimum for everybody, and a premium care for those who can afford it. No one, I mean NO ONE (legal or illegal) is denied medical care. But, if you want a tummy tuck, you pay for it.

You'd rather have a system where everybody is eligible for everything, but no one gets anything because of collapsing system? I do not.

Been there, tried that. Fails every time.

SOB · « **Reply #16 on:** May 26, 2003, 02:33:01 AM »

Your actions speak much louder than my words. No need to listen to me.

SOB

mietla · « **Reply #17 on:** May 26, 2003, 02:38:09 AM »

Actions?

SOB · « **Reply #18 on:** May 26, 2003, 02:54:58 AM »

The act of posting like a retard. I know it well, and we can spot our own!

Suave · « **Reply #19 on:** May 26, 2003, 03:10:02 AM »

I thought the dept. of defense IS healthcare .

SOB · « **Reply #20 on:** May 26, 2003, 03:39:14 AM »

LOL...kinda

mietla · « **Reply #21 on:** May 26, 2003, 03:47:44 AM »

Care to respond in substance?

SOB · « **Reply #22 on:** May 26, 2003, 04:12:34 AM »

Perhaps if you had started out like you wanted an honest discussion. But, as it is, you're just being retarded. Besides, I doubt I could begin to answer some of the questions that would face someone designing a system for nationalized health care.

SOB

Dawggus · « **Reply #23 on:** May 26, 2003, 08:15:03 AM »

The problem with Healthcare is the economic model in which we operate. How many other industries separate the consumer (patients) from the buyer (employers/government). The consumer has little incentive to control their utilization, unless they have a catastrophic policy like someone mentioned earlier.

We want providers, Hospitals in particular, to operate in a free market mode, but saddle them with the above anomoly, plus the requirement to treat all emergent cases regardless of payment source. We are happy to do this, but the economics just don't add up.

My Hospital is celebrating it's 75th Anniversary in May next year. If you do the math, you will see that the Hospital opened 5 months before the Stock Market crash and great depression. We survived on the barter system, receiving produce and labor in exchange for services. We'd pay our employees what we could and issue IOUs for the balance ... that would surely fly today???

The fact is, our economic model is more like that of a utility than normal, for-profit business. Don't get me wrong, I want as little government involvement as possible too, and I surely don't have the answer to the dilema (if I did, I'd be rich

). In any event, some good discussion!

Cya Up!

lord dolf vader · « **Reply #24 on:** May 26, 2003, 11:11:52 AM »

thanks for the reasoned responce sorry if i was flippant before but my lack of grammar and spelling combine to make me back out of some arguments i feel strongly about. much as a stutterer would avoid arguments in a unfreindly situation. that said.

i honestly believe some sort of guarrenteed health care is absolutly a nessesity for our country and really any other who wants to opperate a industrial economy. you want people to show up for work regularly as in 50 of the 52 weeks a year and work overtime? well what do you do when they get the flu or toothach and have to get well the old fasion way, i.e.two or three weeks on your back. fired is what they get or dead. the low paying jobs are a nighmare of absenteeism many times for just this reason.

the fact is medical anything is to expensive for the lowest tier joe to afford. but when he cant take the pain any more and goes to the emergency room he gets treated to the tune of millions on occasion. often for the lack of 200 bucks in preventative care ,alot of these helth crisis could be avoided with centralized preventitive health care its not even really debatable. its fact

or if you cant concieve of the goverment opperating a service for the common man ( it being here just to fight wars and all ) mayby recognize it has gotten bad enought to let poor folks go to the vetranaian for help. ever goten antibiotics from a vet ? alot of poor folks i know have so common its a nod nod wink wink affair here. ever gotten pain pills from a drug dealer for a toothach just so you could work cause you couldent afford a dentist or getting fired? once again i have. there is a whole network of illeagle support for people left out of the system right here in 21 century america. its shamefull but nessasary the way things are.

what can you say? some of you seem to like it that way, i dont.
heres to republicans hopein they poor people are to sick to vote

( but not to sick to work apperently)

Yeager · « **Reply #25 on:** May 26, 2003, 12:40:10 PM »

Seems to me that everyone in usa has health care to one degree or another. Care provider choice is absent for those who are very poor but they have access, especially to emergent care. Guvmint also provides minimum care for the eldery, at least what I have seen, its usually the state guvmint but the feds kick in some cash for those who are self ignorant (uneducated by choice), poor, drug abusers and such (just your usual democratic supporting trash).

The big gripe here is with the communists socialists like squeak hilliary that want to create systems that are abhorrently inefficient and force the majority of americans out of healthcare choice.

Screw em, I say. Just make sure everyone has basic care.

beet1e · « **Reply #26 on:** May 26, 2003, 01:18:02 PM »

Don't be tempted to go for "socialised" medicine. Maybe the US system is not perfect, but things could be worse.

straffo · « **Reply #27 on:** May 26, 2003, 01:31:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by beet1e
Don't be tempted to go for "socialised" medicine. Maybe the US system is not perfect, but things could be worse.

but it work here (even if it cost a lot)

lord dolf vader · « **Reply #28 on:** May 26, 2003, 03:56:44 PM »

is there an industrialized country without nationalized health?

other than the usa?

SOB · « **Reply #29 on:** May 26, 2003, 05:11:39 PM »

The mere fact that Beetle is against it makes me even more sure that it's a great idea!

SOB