Author Topic: Tracers --  (Read 517 times)

Offline skernsk

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Tracers --
« on: August 03, 2000, 03:20:00 PM »
When a guy shuts of his tracers is it only he who cannot see them or is it also the poor bugger in his gunsights??

I kinda feel that if a guy wants to turn off the tracers to help with HIS aim that's fine, but I don't think HE should have invisible BB's flying past my canopy.

So many people demand reality from this sim, it makes me wonder why we can shut off tracers at all since historically tracers were used to HELP with aim in the first place.

That's my rant for the day....sorry



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Offline JimBear

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Tracers --
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2000, 03:40:00 PM »
If you turn your tracers off, they are off from everyones pov.
Hats off to those guys that gun accurately without them.

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Offline daddog

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Tracers --
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2000, 04:05:00 PM »
Historically I know some of the Aces in the Pacific did not want tracers in their guns.  Once they knew how to aim and were comfortable they did not want to give themselves away and had tracers removed.
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Offline -duma-

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Tracers --
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2000, 04:24:00 PM »
I've found flying the D-30 with tracers off is great fun for stealth approaches in no-icons H2H matches.   It's historical, it takes a fair amount of skill.. what's the problem?

Offline Jigster

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« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2000, 04:29:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by daddog:
Historically I know some of the Aces in the Pacific did not want tracers in their guns.  Once they knew how to aim and were comfortable they did not want to give themselves away and had tracers removed.

A non-manuvering Zeke is always the best  

- Jig



[This message has been edited by Jigster (edited 08-03-2000).]

Offline skernsk

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Tracers --
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2000, 04:42:00 PM »
I wasn't aware that pilots removed tracer from their guns....

duma
The problem is that I'm one of the few who find this sim REALLY tough and I was shot down last night w/o even seeing the con......he said he came at me from high without tracers on.

Some pilots have no problem with this and honestly it will take alot more than this to make me stop flying AH, I need tracer for aiming and I also rely on them for evasives!!

I wanted to get other thoughts on the topic WITHOUT it becoming a squeak session!  So far the reply's are exactly what I was looking for.

Offline Westy

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« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2000, 05:00:00 PM »
 Skernsk it's a very small minority who shut off their tracers in the main arena. To be honest even if he had them on you would have been shot down anyway as you'd never saw him to begin with.

 -Westy

Offline SOB

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« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2000, 05:04:00 PM »
I turned tracers shortly after it was introduced as a feature, and haven't gone back.  Not that my gunnery was any good to begin with, but I didn't find it hard to switch at all.  Usually at the angles I'm firing at the con's below my nose anyhow so tracers don't do a hell of a lot for me.


SOB

Now quit your whining skernsk, and go kill stuff!  
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Offline BigJim

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Tracers --
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2000, 05:09:00 PM »
Without Tracers us old farts would be lost, we are big enough cannon fodder now  

Offline Maverick

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Tracers --
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2000, 05:14:00 PM »
Hey there,

 I tried no tracers last night myself. I found it helped as I would make short bursts to confirm range. If no hits, then I was off. If I hit, then I hosed a bit for the kill. I also found it easier to SEE the hit flashes (not that I see very darn many with my lack of skill   ) and knew I was hitting.

It's real and realistic. No one said the enemy had to give you warning he was shooting your butt.    

Leave it as is please.

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[This message has been edited by Maverick (edited 08-03-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Maverick (edited 08-03-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Maverick (edited 08-03-2000).]
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Offline skernsk

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« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2000, 07:15:00 PM »
Westy

Agreed 100%....I should look around more and watch SOB's bellybutton less.

I have been reluctant to switch off tracers and am deathly afraid to switch off icons..........but that is a totally different topic.

I will try turning off tracers to see both sides of the topic, and next time you see a con flying straght and level and not attempting to evade at all..........drool and say "Hi Skernsk"

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2000, 07:20:00 PM »
 
Quote
The commanding officer ordered our tracer ammo removed.... I'll never forget the spectacular results we got. Our kill rate went up from fifty to 100 percent.

Colonel Charles W. King USAAF 5 Victories; WWII

I'd say there's historical precedent.

 

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Offline CavemanJ

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« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2000, 07:54:00 PM »
I've been flying w/o tracers lately and I've come to prefer it.  It's a big help if my initial burst is off target  


Offline Jigster

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« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2000, 08:18:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime:
I'd say there's historical precedent.

 

Hang

Well look at it this way:

P-51 in AH's 6 gun configuration has 1880 rounds. Every 5 are tracers. That quite a bit of ammo wasted on shells that have a a slightly different trajectery (historically anyways)then the rest of the ammo stream.

No wonder they got more kills  

"I can think of only one time where tracers actually helped me on a combat mission. At the time I was leading the squadron, normally the CO's job, and here I was a lowely Lt. (Due to slow promotions because I had started out enlisted, that whole evadee thing, I was really an old hand in the Squadron and was considered competent enough to do so). One bastard was flying tail-end charlie for my 4 plane formation when I wagged my wings to draw him in. He just ignored me and refused to close up, and made some snide remark about my rank. I quickly broke off the lead, rolled in behind him and let loose a good burst, with tracers streaking right over his cockpit. Bastard did see that, and I didn't get any problems out of him for the rest of the flight.

Tracers were great for learning how guns fired, but the main bulk of the ammo normally didn't follow the tracer path exactly. When we were practicing gunnery out in the desert in the P-39, we found it was much easier to go without tracers. We'd fire on rocks, guessing where the bullets would hit, and compensate once we actually saw them hit. As Mack would say, 'Hell we have to correct once we fire anyway, tracers just give you less time to target the sum-squeak before he starts jinxin'.

I never really did like them much, it was always kind of a shock when the guns went off and the tracers streaked out, impairing my vision for a second or two till my eyes
adjusted. I used them though, without any problems." -- Chuck Yeager

- Jig

Offline ra

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Tracers --
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2000, 08:32:00 PM »
I've read where some US Navy pilots would only have tracers rounds loaded for the last 50 rounds per gun, so they'd know when they were running low. If you watch US Navy gun camera footage you sometimes see that there are no tracers, just a lot of Zeke parts flying around.

ra