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Author Topic: Europe's draft constitution  (Read 562 times)

Offline Dowding

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Europe's draft constitution
« on: May 26, 2003, 06:08:03 PM »
Europe's draft constitution

Euro treaty 'to meet UK concerns'

There will be no name change to United States of Europe. Which is nice.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2003, 06:11:49 PM by Dowding »
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Offline Maverick

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Europe's draft constitution
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2003, 08:41:21 PM »
Looks like what Germany tried to do by force is being done by diplomacy. I saw areas where there would be a loss of sovereignty on the part of the member nations.

I have to wonder why making a united europe would have any bearing on the confidence of a member nation.
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Offline NUKE

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Re: Europe's draft constitution
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2003, 11:21:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
Europe's draft constitution

Euro treaty 'to meet UK concerns'

There will be no name change to United States of Europe. Which is nice.


Interesting . Dowding how do you feel about all of this? Do you want the UK to be part of the EU? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just curious.

It seems to me the UK really wont have much of a choice but to fully join, since once the EU gets rolling, everyone else will be on the outside looking in economically, and perhapse in other ways.

In my view, I still  foresee a big powder keg brewing in europe. The language in the constitution seems pretty strong in regards to the way members are required act  concerning EU policy.  

I know a lot of you just label me as a euro-hater ( which Im not) but the concern I have isn't that I'm worried about a strong europe......I'm concerned that there will arise conflict between member nations as their sovereignty is slowy but surely lost to the EU. Lessor things have caused great wars.
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Offline Airhead

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Europe's draft constitution
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2003, 12:13:34 AM »
If the UK gets free dental care out of this then it's all good.
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Offline Nifty

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Europe's draft constitution
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2003, 08:36:33 AM »
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Member states shall actively and unreservedly support the Union's common foreign and security policy in a spirit of loyalty and mutual solidarity and shall comply with the acts adopted by the Union in this area.
They shall refrain from action contrary to the Union's interests or likely to impair its effectiveness.

imagine if this was the case earlier in the year.  How would things have gone with the US invasion of Iraq?  Would the EU as a whole taken Britain's stance, or taken France/Germany's stance?  Whichever the majority of the EU decided, how would the minority have reacted?

Would Britain have still backed the US as the European Union as an entity condemned the US attack?  Would France/Germany has been as vocal if the EU had embraced (or at least supported) the US attack?

Thinking about that, you can see where Nuke could possibly be right, even though I don't think it'd be as drastic (i.e. another war in Europe) as he's predicting.
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Offline bounder

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Europe's draft constitution
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2003, 08:46:32 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Airhead
If the UK gets free dental care out of this then it's all good.

We do. At least many of us do. Otherwise it is simply heavily subsidised. Naturally those with spare cash can fork out the full amount and go to a private dentist.

It's not perfect, but it does mean dental care for everyone (if they want it).
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Offline OIO

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Europe's draft constitution
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2003, 08:52:08 AM »
no, but you can clearly see the seeds of a huge problem with the EU. The "big boys" (France, Germany, and UK if it joins) will want to be in control of what happens..and those 3 have a chronic case of disdain for each other. Its not like the USA where everyone was in one pot being mixed; EU will be like putting oil, water and vinegar in a blender and try to mix it on HIGH revs. Its not gonna be pretty.
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Offline Dowding

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Europe's draft constitution
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2003, 11:01:22 AM »
It depends, Nuke. The EU needs us economically and politically - and that is a reciprocal relationship. We need to still be a member of the EU. Within 5 years we will have monetry union and I'm fine with that.

In the ultra-long term, I think there will be a gradual closing of the gap. I think full unity like the United States is unlikely and I don't think that is what the EU is aiming for - the US is a totally diferent case.

I do think there is alot of paranoia in the US regarding the EU. Out of ignorance? Maybe, but I don't know how it's reported over your way.
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Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2003, 11:15:50 AM »
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Originally posted by bounder
We do. At least many of us do. Otherwise it is simply heavily subsidised. Naturally those with spare cash can fork out the full amount and go to a private dentist.

It's not perfect, but it does mean dental care for everyone (if they want it).


I think the gist of Airheads post went the speed of light over your head Bounder. :)
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Offline ra

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Europe's draft constitution
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2003, 11:26:36 AM »
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I do think there is alot of paranoia in the US regarding the EU. Out of ignorance? Maybe, but I don't know how it's reported over your way.

The only worries over here are that the EU will be prone to waging trade wars, and that it will weaken NATO as EU countries  go their own way.  In other words, the EU will begin acting like a gigantic France.
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blue1

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Europe's draft constitution
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2003, 12:45:38 PM »
More like gigantic Germany, Europeans are more nervous of Germany than any other country for good reason. So much so that when Germany reunited some years ago the then German Chancellor made a point of stating that they wanted a European Germany not a German Europe!

One of the main reasons for the EU in the first place was to stop the ruinous wars between the big three, UK, Germany and France.

Incidentally the British insisted on a couple of changes to the draft constitution. The word 'Federal' and term 'United States of Europe were dropped.

The words may be dropped but the intention remains.
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blue1

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Europe's draft constitution
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2003, 12:51:23 PM »
More like gigantic Germany, Europeans are more nervous of Germany than any other country for good reason. So much so that when Germany reunited some years ago the then German Chancellor made a point of stating that they wanted a European Germany not a German Europe!

One of the main reasons for the EU in the first place was to stop the ruinous wars between the big three, UK, Germany and France.

Incidentally the British insisted on a couple of changes to the draft constitution. The word 'Federal' and term 'United States of Europe were dropped.

The words may be dropped but the intention remains.
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