Let's have more ACKS !!!

[fd ski]

Had a little accident while back..
Was running low on the deck and all of the sudden i got shredded...

There was some sort of city in my path that i overlooked.

Kinda got me thinking...

In all WWII accounts, it is rather clear that pilots didn't like to fly on the deck.
Coming within AAA usually meant trouble.

Laser acks ? Yes, but... we have way too few... a field should have something like 50+ acks - not 6  

Most of the pilots will tell you that when thye attacked airfield - it was always one pass affair. Whoever went in for seconds - usually didn't come back...

Back to the point now..

Can we have some ack emplacements around the map at random location... simulating ground troops on the front line ?

It would put fights higher up, discourage running on the deck, and make things somewhat more realistic ?

LW is gonna have my bellybutton for this  


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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF

Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998

Northolt Wing Headquarters

[Wanker]

Hi Bart,

Varied calibur acks are coming for 1.03, but I don't recall Pyro saying that they're going to be adding more acks.

Personally, I'd rather have them spending their coding time working on naval ops and more varied targets, like trains. Maybe those trains could hold a few quad 20mm flak guns, eh?

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[This message has been edited by banana (edited 06-19-2000).]

[Saintaw]

IMO, this would turn to even more frequent ACK HUGGING...

[funked]

Plenty of fighting on the deck in Russia and the Pacific.  Plenty of running on the deck in pilot accounts of all theatres.  And low level fights were common in Europe once the pre-Overlord onslaught began (at least for TAF units like 308 Sqn).

As you state, one pass was the limit at an airfield.  But in here the limit is ZERO passes.  You can make many passes if you dive and do silly maneuvers, but if you try a historical profile low level attack, it's over before the first pass is complete.  It's currently impossible to pull off the kind of attacks that were routine in many theaters.  The AI is just too good.

Accuracy needs to be reduced to realistic levels before doing what you propose.

Also what about IFF?  Friendly fire was a serious problem.  My grandfather saw many Allied planes downed by friendly AAA in the North Africa theater.  I've read a story where a P-39 pilot radioed his base on New Guinea that he was running home with a Zero on his ass, and he wanted the AAA gunners to kill it for him.  AAA killed the Zero AND the poor P-39 pilot.  Or the famous Bodenplatte attack - some Luftwaffe units were decimated by their own gunners before they could get to their targets.

Let humans control the guns, and take away the laser rangefinders and icons.  Then you might get something resembling the real situation.

But adding even more of the AI CIWS Phalanx systems would be neither realistic nor entertaining.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 06-19-2000).]

[Karnak]

Historicly, that first pass was because the gunners were scrambling to their guns.  Here, the guns are always manned.  If it were setup so that a field that has not been attacked for, say ½ an hour or a hour, would have no ack for 15 - 30 seconds of an aircraft coming within visual range, that might mimick the 1 pass scenario.

Sisu

[easymo]

 As long as a human is pulling the trigger, you can have all the ack you want. I hate being shoot down by AI.

[Ghosth]

Count me on the side of the human manned gunners. As long as ack has

A instant responce time
B Lazer tracking
C Unlimited ammo
 
There is no way you can have a historically defended airfield, city, whatever.

If you want scattered acks, get pyro to deliver that manned artillery/AAA he's been talking about. Then you can set up an interdiction line for low flying planes/tanks/C-47's.

[BlackHammer]

yup.  just remember that ack (especially flak) was historically much less effective than it looked.  a large, tight group of bombers (20+ planes) would generally lose only 1 or 2 in the heaviest flak over cities (although many would take some minor shrapnel).  there are even a few instances where interceptors would pursue bombers into friendly flak to bring them down!

i agree that there should be more ack, but i also think that it should be less effective.  it would have the be a very lucky shot (the golden bullet) to bring you down.  ghosth is right; laserlike precision is hardly realistic.

black hammer

[Sorrow[S=A]]

This is something I would be curious about, how are the acks in 1.03 going to work? I am taking this one to the gameplay forum

[AKDejaVu]

 

In all WWII accounts, it is rather clear that pilots didn't like to fly on the deck. Coming within AAA usually meant trouble.

I picked up on this in the P47 driver interview to which Lephturn eluded.  I was wondering if this thread would pop up as a result.  Thanks for providing the sounding board FD SKI.

 

IMO, this would turn to even more frequent ACK HUGGING...

I've correlated the occurance of ack hugging to be directly proportional to the number of enemy planes circling over a base.

I think there should be more of a drive to keep the fights away from the bases in anything but an attack/capture scenario.  The fighting should occur between the bases.. not over them.

AKDejaVu

 

[Hazed]

I absolutely disagree here (with original post   ). the old laser ack was not good and ack hugging,whilst a legitimate tactic,is not something you should be able to do anywhere..learn to use terrain,clouds,manouvers or better still dont put yourself in the 'help wheres nearest ack' position in the first place.
i think the ack is fine.
if you want to simulate front line troops wait until HT gives downed pilots rifles and you can take pot shots yourself  



[This message has been edited by Hazed (edited 06-19-2000).]

[airspro]

I hate AI anythingone of the biggest reasons I came here was no AI gunners in bombers . Now get rid of the AI ack will be more than happy   .

If I wanted to play against a PC would do it offline .

cheers spro