Say BY BY to the A-10

[LePaul]

Originally posted by MajTom
I would think the Harrier  compares to the A10

No no....Harrier has 4 really really nice Infra Red weaknesses for anyone with a heat seeking missile.  One of the Navy guys here was an F-14 driver and didn't have much good to say about the Harrier....low payload, cant carry a lot, cant loiter around for long, and is nowhere near as armored as the A-10.  Just a very poor comparison.

Asking a Marine about the Harrier is double edged.  Some hate it, some love it.  I do not have the numbers on how many were lost in the Gulf War but the impression left on me is they are good at a very specific mission.

[midnight Target]

On a side note, the air museum down the street from me has one of onl 2 copies of the plane the A-10 beat out for the CGS contract. It is designated the A-9.




Northrop A-9

[Airscrew]

I remember seeing pics of that plane in late 70's,  always reminded me of a Panther or a Banshee.   McDonnell/Douglas, Northrop

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Whats the difference on a technical level between operating rotary wing aircraft, such as the AH-64 Apache, or a fixed wing aircraft, such as the A-10, that makes the former's requirement only 2 years of college(Associates Degree), while the latter 4 years of college(Undergrad)?

I'm not talking about manuevering either, or air combat, since there were pilots in WWII, which was more stick 'n rudder than operating a computer, that had no college or only a year of college credit.

Anyone in the know?
-SW

[OIO]

The helo uses much more avionics and requires more brainpower. Remember, the A10 flies a few hundred feet above the deck dodging AA fire. The Apache flies a few feet off the ground and dodges AA fire as well as trees.

Firepower wise the Apache beats the A10, but the A10 can stay longer over target and can "reach" other places faster.

The two complement each other perfectly IMO.

I really wonder what the AF will try to replace the A10 with. Unmaned remote controlled drones carrying Hellfire missiles ?

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Yeah, plus the Apache uses an IR (or is it a ground terrain) sensor on one eye while you are looking at the real world with your other eye, atleast thats what I got from looking at the helmet.

But, if it requires more brain power- why only 2 years of college needed, and not 4 like a fixed wing aircraft?

Thats what I wanna know, not as a "well helos are better"... I wanna know for a possible (near) future job...
-SW

[OIO]

wait, i though the helos required the 4 yr degree.

Wow. Thats really weird if helo requires only 2yrs. Maybe they require 2 yrs because the helo training program is longer than the fixed wing training program?

Maybe they need pilots..quick? You know, be all that you can be instead of Fly High?

The apache uses both IR and "camera" sensors. They got a "VR" tracking headgear which moves the optics in the nose of the helo, with the camera information and most HUD data shown on 1 eye while the other eye is free to look at the gauges in the helo's cockpit as well as visually flying the chopper.

Its a very neat system, but those guys train really hard to get used to it.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Thats all I can figure, because in WWII they really needed pilots at the onset- and so they lowered their requirements from 2 years minimum of college to simply a H.S. graduate. Got this from the book "Close Calls Two tours with the 353rd FG" by Bill Price.

For the Helo stuff, I got some info from here: http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/prerequ/wo153A.html

And some more info from a brochure out of a friend's packet for joining the Army. The brochure detailed that someone needed to have graduated from H.S., taken atleast 15 credit hours at an accredited institution(guess that means anything from Community college to Ivy Leage), and not be over 29 years of age at the time of enlistment. Also needed a 110 on the General Techinical part of the ASVAB and a 90 on the Alternate Flight Aptitude Selection Test and sign up for 6 years active duty.

Guess they desperately need helo pilots?
-SW

[Airscrew]

SW- back about 1980, I had friend that was a TI at lackland, He quit the AF as an E-4 or E-5, went into the Army for helo training and was made a CW-1 to fly helicopters.  
It would appear that the Army is always desperate for pilots

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Interesting, thanks for the info MajTom.
-SW

[muckmaw]

Originally posted by OIO

Firepower wise the Apache beats the A10, but the A10 can stay longer over target and can "reach" other places faster.

The two complement each other perfectly IMO.
 

I think we'd really need to examine the ordinance closely to determine this.

The Apache's Mainstay is the Hellfire Missle which it can carry up to 18, or 8 with 38 FFARs. It also carries 1200 30mm rounds w/ this load out.

On the other hand, the A-10 hauls 16,000 lbs of ordinance, including up to 6 AGM-65 Mavericks and 14, 2.75" rockets, 2 AIM-9Ls and 1150 rds.

Is the Hellfire more potent than the Maveick, or vice versa?

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Syzygyone
I am curious as to what the Marines have  that can compete with the A-10.  Are you talking about helos?  Isn't the survivability of  the A-10  far superior?

The Marines use the F/A-18 and the AV8 Harrier for close air support in addition to their helicopters.  In fact, the Marines are the ones that wrote the book on close air support since they're the ones that pretty much started it when they used old Curtiss biplanes in that role during the Banana Republic wars in the early part of the 20th Century.

Ack-Ack

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by OIO


I really wonder what the AF will try to replace the A10 with. Unmaned remote controlled drones carrying Hellfire missiles ?

Most likely the F-16 until the JSF is ready to be deployed.


Ack-Ack

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
The Marines use the F/A-18 and the AV8 Harrier for close air support in addition to their helicopters.  In fact, the Marines are the ones that wrote the book on close air support since they're the ones that pretty much started it when they used old Curtiss biplanes in that role during the Banana Republic wars in the early part of the 20th Century.

Ack-Ack

The guy in the office next to me was a Marine A-4 pilot in Vietnam. He has some amazing tales to tell, but this one seems to be very Vietnamesque.

Every Marine pilot is assigned as a forward observer for a portion of his tour. The logic was(is?) that a pilot should be the one talking to the pilots.

Actually even the forward observer was insulated from the guy with the ordinance. The guy on the ground would talk to a guy in a Bronco, who would vector in the air support. Art (my co-worker) said this was to filter out the stress level the forward observer sometimes conveyed over the radio.

Well during one very nasty firefight, Art's company was in deep doo doo. The VC were within 30 yards of their entrenchment, and the situation was dire. Art called the Bronco pilot and requested a drop within 30 yards of his position. Not wanting to make a mistake, the Bronco pilot flew into the teeth of the situation to make sure he called in the right coordinates. A napalm drop was made close enough to Art so that "One guy stood up in his foxhole and was fried." The rest were saved by the drop.

Later Art, (a Marine Captain) wrote up a request for a commendation for the Bronco pilot. HQ read Art's write up of the events of that day, and promptly busted the Bronco pilot for flying too low.

sheeesh.

[funkedup]

http://www.geocities.com/equipmentshop/colrosenbergerwarning.htm