Author Topic: is there instant action drill for someone behind you?  (Read 679 times)

Offline anonymous

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is there instant action drill for someone behind you?
« on: May 28, 2003, 03:27:29 AM »
someone gets behind me im a goner. ive seen guys avoid my gunfire many times when im behind them but i dont know what they are doing with controls to do this. i try to "break" and its not doing any good. im flying the hellcat. can someone give me something like a three or a five step "drill" to perfmorm when someone is behind me and im within effective gun range of the guy behind me? still learning to fly but id like something to work on in terms of not getting shot down.

Offline bigjava

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is there instant action drill for someone behind you?
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2003, 04:16:00 AM »
Basic synthesis about BCM (Basic combat manoeuvre):

BCM

but the first point is how learn to avoit to put yoursef into trouble.... i suggest u a very beautifull resource to learn all about AH and tattics

Aces High Tech Hangar :cool: ;)

and last  it's better learn the difference between airplanes:
Exemple u have an F6F and a ZEKE in tail...at 600 yardes
What to do now depends at 70% to this answer...
what's your speed and what's his "E"------>F6F turns better than a zeke at 350 380 speed
but it's turning bad than zeke at 250 so if u are slow made a break-turns means at 80% that  u are going to  die ....
« Last Edit: May 28, 2003, 09:19:25 AM by bigjava »

Offline gofaster

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is there instant action drill for someone behind you?
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2003, 09:21:41 AM »
What you do depends on what you're flying and what the other guy is flying.  Once you know what your plane can do and what the other guy's plane can do, you'll have a better idea of your options.

To get this sort of aircraft knowledge, you should try to fly the more popular airplanes a few times.  One thing I did was "fly the plane that last shot me down".  I got a lot of stick time in the LA-7, Spitfire IX, P-51D, and Typhoon this way (I refuse to fly the N1K2).  You might also try flying the "second tier" planes, such as the Yak9U, P-51B, FM2, Zero, Spitfire V, F6F, F4U, 190A5, A8, D9, 109F, G2, G6, G10, and Hurricane just to put yourself at a disadvantage a few times and try to work your mad pilot skillz (its also a good way to build a lot of perk points).

There is no specific maneuver that can save your bacon every time, though I have had some success by staying fast in the fast planes, and using rudder-assisted turns in the slow planes.  In a fast plane, I never follow a guy's turn unless I know I can beat him slow.  Once he goes into his break turn, I go into a climb and set myself up for another run from above his head.  The more he turns, the slower he'll get while I climb up and stay fast.  Eventually he'll end up on the deck and slow, which will result in either him flying straight and level to get his airspeed back or crashing into the ground in a stall.

If I'm jumped by a fast plane and I'm in a slow plane, I'll turn and try to draw him into the turn fight, too.  The slower the fight gets, the more the advantage will shift to me.  If he doesn't take the bait, then I go nose-down and try to equalize our airspeeds, then try to get him to black out in a hard turn, change direction of my path, and get away while he's still trying to recover from his black out.

One maneuver I use, and its specific to the Mustangs and Corsairs, is the high-speed stall.  If the guy is coming in behind me and is faster than me, I'll stall my Mustang so that it tumbles through the air.  Of course, this can sometimes come back to bite me if I can't recover in time.  It also bleeds a lot of speed, unfortunately.  Still, it will cause your flight path to be eratic, so your attacker will either have to spray in your general direction or break off his attack and wait for you to recover.  Last night I was flying a P-51B and was bounced by an LA-7.  I stalled the plane and went nose-down to recover.  Meanwhile, the LA-7 climbed above me and went straight down to try an kill me.  As I recovered low and slow, he went speeding past me and augered into the ground.

Anyway, those are some ideas you might find useful.

Offline acetnt

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is there instant action drill for someone behind you?
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2003, 12:31:16 PM »
Hello Anonymous,

The other guys gave you great hints - use em. Just have wanted to say that another good evasive maneuver is a variant of a barrel roll. It has worked for me several times.

If I have a little altitude and the guy behind is faster than me and catching up (in firing range). I pull a little back on on side of my joystick while doing the exact opposide to my rudder e.g. little right up joystick and full left rudder. Once the plane starts into the barrel roll  then I tip the nose down so I am heading to the ground. The reason I do this is to force the guy to overshoot or break. If done right it is very difficult for him to get a shot on you and not overshoot.

If you do it too early or you don't tip your nose down and loose too much e while he is too far away - then my friend u end up dead......... The fun is when it works u will switch postions with the guy and get on his six.....

You can practice this in TA before a real fight.....

Hope this helps

Acetnt
« Last Edit: May 28, 2003, 03:43:30 PM by acetnt »

Offline YUCCA

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is there instant action drill for someone behind you?
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2003, 01:48:58 PM »
Stop, drop, and roll... Oh wait dont think that's right but it might work!

Offline WldThing

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is there instant action drill for someone behind you?
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2003, 03:29:45 PM »
I either TURN or do a Split S if there is enough alt under me..

Offline bockko

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is there instant action drill for someone behind you?
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2003, 05:19:56 PM »
another thing to watch is for those nice guys who use tracers - u can avoid most shots by turning out of their shots, this works quite well outside of around 400 yrds, but in closer u just might watch them shred your plane. of course, some guys don't use tracers, so its just an aid to use but not to depend on. Many head on shooters let you know if they have tracers on when they make their hi skill opening shot..which you avoid of course.

Offline Soulyss

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is there instant action drill for someone behind you?
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2003, 05:28:43 PM »
Well if your flying the Hellcat, it wouldn't hurt to head on over and see what Mathman had to say on the matter, talking to him over the years has helped me out.  

http://www.netaces.org/ahplanes/usa/mathmanf6f/mathman.html

Other than that, if someone is behind you, what you do not want to do is be predictable.  Use all control surfaces available to you, especially the rudder, that can make it harder for your oponent to calculate your flight path and pull lead on you.  You don't want to just mindlessly roll your joystick around, but push negative G, do someone out of plane or otherwise unexpected.  Whatever you do, never give up, I can't tell you how many times I've thought to myself "well I'm hosed" only to evade destruction and manage to limp home.


*edit* I bounce around a little, but most the time I'm flying knights, if you see me online come on over.  I'll fly with ya if you like.  Teaming up will work better than the fanciest ACM. :)
« Last Edit: May 28, 2003, 05:33:25 PM by Soulyss »
80th FS "Headhunters"
I blame mir.

Offline Soda

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is there instant action drill for someone behind you?
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2003, 05:29:01 PM »
Defense is constant so never really starts or ends, but if you are starting your defense when someone is locked onto your tail then you have started way too late.  By that time there may be nothing you can do to get the enemy off you.  Typically you need to avoid getting them there is the first place, or only allow them to remain there for a short period of time where they are not in a good position to shoot.  Situational Awareness is key for this, but that's a skill you develop over time.  When someone is on your tail it's time for "Last-Ditch" style defenses most of the time.

Wldthng is correct, the Break-Turn and Split-S are very common, though can throw in little variations to make them less predictable and more difficult to the enemy to follow.  Timing is also critical, if you start your maneuver too early then it's easily countered, if you start too late then you might already be doomed.  You'll mostly have to learn that through experience though and by evaluating the situation.

It can be really important to know aircraft performance also.  As Gofaster showed in his maneuver in P-51 vs La7, that might work, but if you tried the same thing against a Spitfire then it might be suicide.  See if you can't find and exploit performance issues since they can be immediate escape routes against certain situations.  For example, 109's don't handle well above 450mph and can accelerate out of control above that speed.  If you were flying a good diver (P47, F4U, others) then you might be able to out-dive it and let the 109 get out of control while you remain in control and escape (maybe just turning and pulling out while watching the 109 lawn-dart into the ground).

The variables are endless though, mostly it'll be experience where you'll refine the maneuvers and learn timing.  All the points though that have been made are good.

-Soda
Aces High Trainer Corps.
The Assassins.