Meet Len, P47 pilot

[SFRT - Frenchy]

If u live around Vero Beach, FL, stop by a golf shot named "Golf Round Up". One of the seller is an old gentleman named Len. he was a P47-M pilot in Europe. His squadron did a lot of ground attack and they didn't saw much eni airplanes he said.

He managed to get 3 kills. 1 time he saw 2 germans planes passing by at 2 o'c and low, he dived in and got them both. his 3rd kill was a solo 190 who dived on his formation of 16 hvy P47. Everybody jettissons his bombs except him, and he is the one who got the kill  

He belly landed 2 times, one when he got shot down and one when his engine quit on take off (he belly landed with all his bombs and DT). He said it was a beauty to belly land, crew came, charged the plane on a truck after pulling wings appart, next day the same plane was back on the ramp rdy to fly.

While straffing (mostly trucks), they used to shoot 4 guns only, while some of the P47 stayed high keeping all their amo in case of air attack.

At the famous question : "We have a polemic on an internet forum about how the P47 could handle climb and turn, what was your experience about that?"

He answered: "Both 109 and FW were far supperior in climb, but we could turn good with them. My technique was to chop throttle and drop 2 notch of flaps" (note: said nothing on what the initial engagement conditions were, so it doesn't mean a lot).

thank you Len for your time, it was sweet as everytime I meet a WW2 vet. Feel free to visit him, he will probably enjoy the chat  

[ra]

Thanks for the interesting post Frenchy.

<<<While straffing (mostly trucks), they used to shoot 4 guns only>>>

I read in AHT that the Jug's guns all fired at once when the trigger was pulled.  I wonder if the P-47M was different, or if this was a field mod.

ra

[SFRT - Frenchy]

i don't know RA, he said they used 4 guns so they could 'double their straffing time' <4 guns then the other 4 guns>.

Probably someone have the P47 bible and will enjoy giving us the info  

[BD]

Frenchy,

My family has a house in Vero. Back when I was about 11 (would have been in the early 70s), my uncle, a pilot, took me out to a hangar at the Vero (I think) airport.  He opened the doors, and there in the shadows were three! P-47s.  Metallic finish.  I climbed around on them, looked inside.  Had a ball!

Now, they <could> have been p-51s, but I am almost sure they were 47s.  Anybody down there know anything about what happened to these aircraft? Or where they came from?

I've been wondering all these years.

BD

[SFRT - Frenchy]

No idea, i will ask around in Kessimy.

[Downtown]

America's Hundred-Thousand; U.S> Production Fighters of World War Two does not specify the weapons configuration difference between the D and the M.  It says that the 8 .50s of the P-47 were devestating.  It is also rated the best strafer of all U.S. Fighters.  It also took as much damage as a P-40 (sometimes more.)  According to what the pilots say in Americas 100,000 the P-47 could out turn the 109.

------------------

"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.
    lkbrown1@tir.com    
 http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1
Wrecking Crews "Drag and Die Guy"
Hals und beinbruch!

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by ra:
Thanks for the interesting post Frenchy.

<<<While straffing (mostly trucks), they used to shoot 4 guns only>>>

I read in AHT that the Jug's guns all fired at once when the trigger was pulled.  I wonder if the P-47M was different, or if this was a field mod.

ra

This is true, but with almost any US fighter, the gun has to be charged before it will fire. Thus, charge 4 guns, pulling the trigger would only fire 4 guns.

I'm not sure technically how this was done, but I remember reading one time where Chuck Yeager was flying a loaded P-39 and charged a single .50 MG in order to heard some antelope towards a waiting group of enlisted men. As antelope got near the the enlisted men he fired one shot out of one gun and dropped about 4 of them.

I can only speculate on how the M2's worked, but from what I remember another reason for short burst, (normally under 8 seconds) was that the gun electric system ran down quickly during prolonged fire.

- Jig

[Daff]

The only FG equipped with P-47M's was the 56th FG. They slowly started to go operational in Jan '44 and by the time the whole FG used them, there simply wasnt that many luftwobbles to shoot at anymore .

Daff

------------------
CO, 56th Fighter Group
"This is Yardstick. Follow me"

[Ozark]

Hi Frenchy,

I had a nice talk with a P-47 pilot about 3 months ago. He said that he had several missions bombing rivers. I asked why? He stated, "We were trying to cut-off the shallow crossing... making them go for the bridges...and we held the bridges." Hmmm...never thought about that before.

BTW: You work for FIT? I went to school there about 21 years ago.

[SFRT - Frenchy]

He wasn't from the 56th, he was from the 4 hundred something, maybe I missunderstood the version of the P47 he flew?

[Andy Bush]

>>short burst, (normally under 8 seconds<<

Really? I'd hate to see what a long burst is.

In the things I flew, a 'short' burst was less than a second.

Eight seconds is a long, long time to hold the trigger down. Pity the poor barrels.

Andy  

[Daff]

Sounds like it, Frenchy,although you can't really blame them after 50+ years  .

Daff

------------------
CO, 56th Fighter Group
"This is Yardstick. Follow me"

[ra]

Jigster,

US Army fighters had their guns charged on the ground by the armorers.  The guns were electrically fired by the trigger.  The P-38 and the P-39 had separate triggers for MG and cannon, but the P-40, P-51, and P-47 fired all guns at once.  It would probably be an easy field mod to put an electrical switch to allow only 4 guns to fire at once, and for ground attack units it was probably desirable, but it was not the standard as far as I know.

US Navy fighters were charged in flight by the pilot for safety reasons (guns accidentally discharging in the belly of a carrier was a bad thing), so they could fire any guns they wanted when they pulled the trigger.  Some Navy pilots used 4 guns for combat, with the other 2 standing by in reserve in case guns jammed, and to have some ammo for the trip home.

ra

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by Andy Bush:
>>short burst, (normally under 8 seconds<<

Really? I'd hate to see what a long burst is.

In the things I flew, a 'short' burst was less than a second.

Eight seconds is a long, long time to hold the trigger down. Pity the poor barrels.

Andy  

That's why I said under  

Actually the longest I've heard with frquency are 2-3 seconds. I have also heard cases where when attacking bombers and other heavily planes that fighter pilots would forget to let go and just hose the thing, ala a 7-8 second stream. And ayup there go the barrels  

- Jig

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by ra:
Jigster,

US Army fighters had their guns charged on the ground by the armorers.  The guns were electrically fired by the trigger.  The P-38 and the P-39 had separate triggers for MG and cannon, but the P-40, P-51, and P-47 fired all guns at once.  It would probably be an easy field mod to put an electrical switch to allow only 4 guns to fire at once, and for ground attack units it was probably desirable, but it was not the standard as far as I know.

US Navy fighters were charged in flight by the pilot for safety reasons (guns accidentally discharging in the belly of a carrier was a bad thing), so they could fire any guns they wanted when they pulled the trigger.  Some Navy pilots used 4 guns for combat, with the other 2 standing by in reserve in case guns jammed, and to have some ammo for the trip home.

ra

I also believe that to be the case, but I think perhaps the time Yeager was shooting in 39 he had only taken off with one gun charged. Although, given he was a plane mechanic before becoming a pilot, he probably could and did make slight modifications to his plane. I believe his favorite was hammering nails into the M2 gun mounts, which was said to improve accuracy after the gun had fired several rounds and started shaking. He said he discovered it from a P-39 crew cheif and used it all the way up to his F-86 squadron commander days, where he was using this to win gunnery meets.

 And it wouldn't suprise me in the least if P-47 ground crews rigged a toggle switch to get two seperate gun banks, all that strafing can't be good for the barrels, and it sure would be nice to have 4 spare guns   Perhaps they had in-flight primer charges as well? I know most of the P-51 pilots checked their guns in flight by firing a short burst, but thats really a different matter.

- Jig