Furballer v. Strat

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by WhiteHawk
Well both aspects are important in AH.    As far is god-blessing the unbleievable importance of the furball, I can ask, how often did furballs occur in WW2?

who gives a turd?  no offence.  I just like it.

[beet1e]

Najdorf,

You are entitled to your point of view, just as I am entitled to mine and all other AH players are entitled to theirs. You seem to present the "furballing is better" case as a statement of fact, whereas it is a subjective statement. I personally feel that the combat arising out of strategic initiatives is better than the "manufactured" combat arising from furballs. That's just my view, but plenty of people agree with me, if events in the MA are taken into account.

If you are content to hold your opinion, and let other players hold theirs, I see no problem. But what I find to be a major source of irritation is when one particular group (more usually the furballers - much less often the strat players) call for changes to the strat and changes to the game itself in order to create advantages to their choice of playing style, to the detriment of everyone else.

[straffo]

I love killing fuel and FH they don't use those evasives cheat in my gunsight !

Flame away

[Sixpence]

I love a good 1v1, but the strategy is what keeps me interested in the game. I really enjoyed hasbro's "Axis & Allies" board game. And what I though would be cool would be to make my moves on the board, then instead of rolling the dice, I could simulate the attack. This game doesn't exactly do that, but it comes as close as anything i've found.

WWIIonline was good, but the flight model was horrible. But I think the best 1v1 or 2v2 fights can be found in the DA. Those are the honorable fights where there is a merge at equal alts and rules are adhered to.

[rshubert]

This is a fishing tournament.

[lazs2]

Yep.. the best fights are between two close fields where people ar upping all the time... some give and take.. or between a CV and a field or another CV..  give me one of those fights and I don't care what happens on the rest of the map... me nor the 40 or so guys in the fight.   Best is when there are 2 or three spots like that on the map to choose from.  

worst is when the toolshed killers have made all the good fields useless or when there is what looks like a good fight but by the time you get to it it is a steamroller or you are outnumbered 5 to 1 by the defenders.   Or... there is nothing at the field but a dozen ground vehicles with their gamey model.

I don't mind seeing fields captured or people tryuing to do it... I just don't like em to be made useless for 30 minutes when I only have a couple of hours to play.   I don't like to get 3 kills an hour in a "massive" multiplayer game...  I don't like to defend against the building battlers because... if you pry em away from the numbers they are no fun to fight... they die trying to evade.  Ai is better fights.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[Hap]

given the low average skill level of all pilots taken as a whole, furballin' is the patzer's route.  it does not tend to victory.  for the "i only care about me" types it's ideal.

the point of the game is to capture territory & win war.  those that disagree, feel free to rewrite manual & recode the game.

[lazs2]

so hap... HT told you this?  

I think that the object is to attract and keep as many players, paying $15 an hour as possible..  when I talked to him he seemed to feel that I was permitted to furball as my "object" of the game.
lazs

[OIO]

lazs, i think that the biggest issue with furball vs strat is the map layouts.

right now all maps in the MA actively encourage, if not outright demand, furballing as the means to capture fields. Missions to capture fields are in essence organized furballs, and they usually launch from a field closeby and all they do is set up a vulch or a low alt furball cap until troops arrive for take.

The tremendous disparity in aircraft in the MA is also a furball magnet. Most of the 'strat' monkeys are, i believe, looking for a more realistic WW2 simulation.. aka historical matchups of 109s vs p51s and the likes.. and that is usually denied by meeting a huge mixup of T&B and B&Z planes which usually ends up becoming a furball instead of a dogfight, with players having to deal with both kinds of energy fighters and turnfighters in the same area, and the result is what we have in the MA now: The planes that can run or have the best turn rate and bristle with cannons are preffered..because in the quake shootfest thats what works.

im working on a map that i hope tickles both player's fancy of fighting.. work in progress stay tuned.

[lazs2]

OIO... I dissagree.. the layout ihas been leaning more and more away from the true furball... late war planes are not furballs... gangbanging is not furballs nor is steamrollering or making all the fields over a sector apart and then making it easy for suicide dweebs to pork the field.  None of those things are furballs... you may get some cherry picking and gangbanging and vultching but no real furballs.

Face it "strat" guys... you are nothing without the worst element  in the game... without the sacrafice of the suicide building battlers and suicide fluffs who do all the heavy lifting for your so called "strat"... you would be dong nothing except trying to belittle a bunch of guys into steamrollering a undefended or lightly defended field..

That is why any suggestion to negate the overbalanced effect they have is met with such resistance by the "strat" guys... you pretend to abhor the suicide dweebs but you, in fact, depend on them for your gameplay...  before the huge influx of low or no talent newbie suicide boyz... you had no real momentum

The only thing furballers depend on is a place for it to happen.
lazs

[ccvi]

Originally posted by lazs2
so hap... HT told you this?  

I think that the object is to attract and keep as many players, paying $15 an hour as possible..  when I talked to him he seemed to feel that I was permitted to furball as my "object" of the game.
lazs

You're free to play chess in a way that you consider yourself the winner when you take the opponents queen. You don't have to care that you opponent will laugh about you when you lose your king...

[Rutilant]

Lazs, that was a spew of nothing but biased nonsense and assumption. I furball, i play the strat game, and I do want to be able to do whichever i want at a given time. I DESPISE suicide dweebs because it makes the strat element totally gamey and pointless. I don't JABO, but for strat i'll take some buffs. But you know what? It's pointless. Why? Because the suiciders have already made three trips in the time it takes me one, and the field is already porked or even captured. By the way, i make sure there isnt a furball between the bases i'm attacking. (hell, i'de be there instead)

I'm just as happy to hear a solution to the suicide dweeb (oor the effect of) as you are. But you know what? You provide nothing towards a solution other than re-stating the problem, which we're all fully aware of. So it's become a whine, and it's become pointless to say it anymore.

So now you proceed to attack the players since you've realised the whining about the system is doing nothing.
All i hear is "mememe, you fix it for me!".

I'm sorry lazs, but i don't see it your way.


I'm a strat dweeb building battler.

I'm a furball dweeb quake-style gamer.

If anyone can think of a way to fix one without comprimising the other, i'm all for it.

(Yes, i know this is just going to get some witty personal attack in 'response', so fire away, poundin on your chest)

[Fariz]

Originally posted by Hap
the point of the game is to capture territory & win war.  those that disagree, feel free to rewrite manual & recode the game.

Hap, the point of any game is to help to structure your time. By other words to keep your entertained doing something valuable (flying AH) instead of something not so valuable (like growing children, or making money). By other word, the point of the game to make you have fun (and pay for it).

If Lazs loves to furball, and that is his fun, great. If you love to capture fields and win wars, that is your fun, and it is also great. MA is a place when we all could greatly do all the great stuff.

And hands off Lazs, he is the king of the show! When he appears in any thread, I buy popcorn, cola, and find a good place to watch what will follow

[najdorf]

I really don't think the game needs "fixing."  My point was simply that dogfiting is the central objective of the game which is a "COMBAT FLIGHT SIM."  Also, I think dogfiting is a more difficult and rewarding aspect of the game than level bombing, JABO, or base capture.  I do those things as a change of pace or when I'm up on squad nite and that's the mission.  I enjoy it, but, it ain't dogfitin'.

I do agree with those that get irritated by people doing suicide attacks on the fuel dumps.  I log on, see an area that looks like it has a good furball going and then up at an area base only to find out I'm limited to 25% fuel.  Then I try every other are base and they are at 25% fuel.  Very frustrating.

Now some of you strat guys will say, hey, defend the base.  How? If some dweeb is intent on porking fuel and he doesn't mind dying a few times to do it, you can't stop him.

Or you say, go to a rear base and transit.  Hey, I don't always have 3 hours to spend on line, I've got a job and a girlfriend who already hates the game.

The fuel porking is the only gameplay issue relevant to this discussion that I think could use a little adjusting.  I would almost rather not have a fuel variant.

My main point however, is not suggesting that the game needs tweaking towards one element over another, it is simply stating the obvious, Dogfiting is why we're here, the rest is window dressing.

[muckmaw]

Originally posted by najdorf

My main point however, is not suggesting that the game needs tweaking towards one element over another, it is simply stating the obvious, Dogfiting is why we're here, the rest is window dressing.

Sorry..Dogfighting is why YOU'RE here. Please do not attempt to speak for the entire community.

I'm hear for the whole experience from Dogfighting, to GVs.

The day AH becomes Quake with wings, is the day I sign off for good.

But you've given me an idea...