Furballer v. Strat

[najdorf]

I think the one thing that has not been said by the furball advocates so far that needs to be said is this:  Achieving an a2a victory is more difficult and more satisfying than killing a building.

I never got an from any of the hudreds of town buildings I've destroyed.

Very simply put, and I've said it before, this game is a combat air sim.  It's about dogfiting.  75 fiters in a 10k radius, aka the "furball" is the ultimate expression of the purpose of the game.

I am not advocating that it be the only thing in the game.  I occasionally get involved in the base grab aspect of the game.  It usually occurs when I'm frustrated from getting slapped out of the sky by a good pilot.

But I always come back to the dogfiting.  There is nothing like the rush you get from an a2a victory.  Do it in a huge furball and live to tell the tale and it's even better.  I think most of you strat guys know it's true, you gave up trying to be the Red Baron because it was too difficult.  The plane truth of the matter is, it's a hell of a lot easier to blast a building, pork some petrol or drop some drunks than it is to kill an nme fiter, especially one driven by a good stick.

There are guys in here that are incredible pilots:  Wildthing, Shane, Urchin, Eagler in his 109, Big Max, there are too many to name.  But that list gives you an idea of what you should be striving for in the game.  They didn't achieve that status by bashing buildings and grabing bases.

The strat stuff is just a diversion, the real action is in acm, in the furball.  Take the time to learn it, you'll be glad you did.

[Steve]

Naj,   I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on some points. First, and most importantly: Shane isn't any good.. he sucks!!!!
Heheheh,  j/k Shano...our late night fights are a blast!

Anyway, I sincerely feel that there is room for both strat and furballers in the MA. I think you are unfairly generalizing when you say that all strat people are those that simply gave up trying to master A2A combat.  Look, I love the A2A aspect of the game, it's a real rush.
There are times that I like the strat part too though.  Over the weekend, I had 2 TG's cruising in tight "formation" and a bunch of my fellow rooks rallied around them and we took a couple of fiercely defended bish bases. It was great fun working  in concert with my teammates to kill Sb's, ord,  and the like in an effort to hamper bish resistance.  In return,  the bishops put up practically heroic resistance and the ensuing battles were epic.  Night before last, I grabbed a TG and a motley assortment of rooks and proceeded to take 6 nit bases in less than an hour.  We were so effective that one nit posed the standard whine:  There the rooks go, taking undefended bases.  The fact was, were were marching to the nit mainland and the nits outnumbered us! With good strat work and teamwork, our outnumbered guys managed to take a port on the nit mainland where determined nit resistance finally stemmed our advance.  I'm telling you Naj, it's a blast to be able to work with your teammates and make strategically relevent things happen.  It's very pleasing to see 20 or so guys all working together to accomplish something.  I really enjoy working as a team like that.  So Naj, I guess I'm at least a part time strat dweeb, but i do ok in a fighter... doncha think?

[Grizzly]

Woof... gotta reply to this!

Some of what you say is true, that the dogfight is the ultimate challenge and requires the greatest acquired skills. Latent talent is a big factor limiting many players to the level they can attain. A player can play for many years, some now approaching twenty, and still find it challenging with more to learn. Human to human contest is by far the most challenging, rewarding and enduring form or air to air combat, making games like AcesHigh so great.

But this isn't for everyone all the time, and limiting the game to air combat also limits the fun factor and player base. For example, a massive dogfight can soon grow boring if there is nothing to fight for. So base capture, base defense, strategic factors, historic accuracy and an objective serve to enhance the air combat... or it should.

The variety of other things you can do in the game, like mud pounding, ground action and sea combat provide alternatives when even the ace of ace gets tired of dogfights. For example, I (not an ace by any means) often use these alternate game play options when I find air combat too intense for my liking at the moment... taking a break.

I find that I only need one base to defend to keep me happy all night. I really care little about what's happening in the rest of the arena. If someone else is pounding one of our bases from a CV, that's fine with me. Everyone should be able to find the type of action they like, including milk run type stuff, suicide jabo, attack and run, cherry picking, space flight... whatever. Whatever floats your boat so you will give HTC your $15.

But I don't like arena capture because it messes things up for others. The most efficient way to capture bases is to avoid air to air combat entirely or use overwhelming force, to destroy and capture bases with impuninty. This is probably the cause of your complaint also. Rather than being the focus of AcesHigh, players complain that dogfighters aren't doing their part.

When your country doesn't have many bases left, it's no longer much fun for many. It shouldn't get to this.

[najdorf]

Hey  Steve,

I am not saying to do away with the strat, I'm just saying that building busting doesn't compare to a2a combat.  The Furball is king in AH and those who do it best are the paramount players.  My list of them was small because it was meant to be illustrative and not exhaustive.  Having flown against you and your pony, I'd put you right there with them.

And, once again, I am not advocating getting rid of a particular aspect of the game, I am just saying I believe it is more challenging and rewarding to be a great furballer over a great strat player.  If you're both, well that's fine, but I bet you get the most satisfaction from killing another great furballer a2a than killing the most intimidating of buildings.

I also agree that there is some talent required to be one of the great furballers, something that possibly can't be learned, but I never stop trying.

[Fariz]

Originally posted by najdorf
Hey  Steve,

I am not saying to do away with the strat, I'm just saying that building busting doesn't compare to a2a combat.  

It does not. Building busting is better. They never whine.

[Tumor]

Originally posted by najdorf
I think the one thing that has not been said by the furball advocates so far that needs to be said is this:  Achieving an a2a victory is more difficult and more satisfying than killing a building.

I never got an from any of the hudreds of town buildings I've destroyed.

Very simply put, and I've said it before, this game is a combat air sim.  It's about dogfiting.  75 fiters in a 10k radius, aka the "furball" is the ultimate expression of the purpose of the game.

I respectfully submit that you are simply looking at the picture from a furballer's POV.

We have buildings, a porked strat-system, bombers and people who enjoy that aspect of the game.  AH is not simply about furballing, nor is furballing king (unless King = the majority point-and-click types)

The absolute best furball's I've participated in happened "back-in-the-day" when guys like Rip would put up mass bomber missions with excellent escort while droves of defense minded folks happily got up to meet the challenge.

IMHO, having to think about it makes all the difference.  Diving into a furball at 500k and picking off a few on the way through requires little thought.  Horsing around with 20 other planes to be picked off by the 500knt fly-through cherry picker doesn't require much thought either.

Indeed, furballing and staying alive DOES require great SA and more often than not, some major seat-of-the-pants flying skills.

However... "Some" people see the combination of the "Furball" and "Strat" as the ultimate high.  As far as I can tell.. that "High" is currently in hibernation.

The only way "everyone" is going to be happy, is if "everyone" gets in the game and makes it happen.  The constant bickering (which IMO is highly indicitive of the "me" generation) about what style is best or worse or which one the game should be dedicated to will never do anything more than detract from the overall game.  

Don't get me wrong... I LOVE the "mindless furball" at times.  I also enjoy the Strat system and the aspects it brings to the game.  I wish more folks thought that way.  

With any luck, AHII will be what defines the medium that everyone can be happy with.  If not... I truly believe AH will degenerate into Quake-with-Wings and eventually end up on par with Warbirds or even possibley (gasp) Air Warrior.

[Steve]

Hmmm, I have to concede, you have me there.  There really is nothing more thrilling than a hair-on-fire-you-better-damned-well-have-your-head-on-a-swivel furball.

I misread your first post as a slam on strat guys. ....sorry.
Please understand though:  I am wholly against suicide dweebs(especially cv suicide dweebs that spoil a good battle). Other than those guys, I really don't understand where guys like Lazs are getting upset at "building battlers".   what I mean is: it's often the building battlers(infinity and pizza map steamrollers excluded) that get the great furballs started.  I think the two groups of folks are intertwined and that there is no great need for change with the following exceptions:  Cv's should be hardened, suicide runs should be made impractical.  Maybe make bombs duds if the pilot doesn't survive 20 secs after drop or something..i am really not sure.  Just my 2cents.  

[udet]

how about...both? Go on a Jabo mission-try to get to your target unharmed without jettisonning your load, bomb the target, and then get into a furball....easy enuff, right?

[jamusta]

My name is jamusta and im a strat dweeb!!!!
My only problem is the majority of the time I seem to try and fight my way thru the furball to get to the base that the enemy is uping from. I never understood why the furballers and strat guys cant work together. I think of the furballers my personal escort when I want to strike a base. I enjoy all aspects of the game. Its like shifting gears. A change of pace. As a strat type guy I fly fighters mostly cus I want to get better. But I like trying to take well defended fields. I am no suicide guy. I always try to live. Most of the time I dont.

So lets make a pact,
Furballers continue to furball. While you are doing that I will continue to try to take enemy base. If we are successful in taking the base, let say our salutes and move to the next one and do it all over again.

And by the way if the enemy is attacking my base I will do eveything in my power to pork the base where the enemy is upping from. Until I get tired of being killed ofcourse which usually take awhile.

[SunKing]

Some of us actually enjoy both. I love to furball and dogfight the majority of the time. But when the countires get down to  

Knights (26)
Bish (4)
Rook (26)

Strat playing gets really fun. Trying to beat the other country to the win or fend them off can be a blast.

[ccvi]

Originally posted by najdorf
Very simply put, and I've said it before, this game is a combat air sim.  It's about dogfiting.  75 fiters in a 10k radius, aka the "furball" is the ultimate expression of the purpose of the game.

Lies! Lies!

http://www.hitechcreations.com/htcindex.html

"Capturing territory through the use of air, land and sea power is the objective of Aces High."

[Widewing]

Like some others have said, I enjoy both strat and furballing. Heck, you can do both during one sortie.

Arrive over target, dive in and drop you ordnance, then engage the defending fighters till gas, ammo or luck run low enough to RTB (assuming you survive that long).

I've flown over furballs, delivered my ord and joined the furball on the way back.

Want more action? Take a perk fighter into the furball. Avoid the distasteful half-sector extends, work the vertical plane and you'll have lots of fun, especially when everyone is focused on you. Just remember, once they get target fixated on your perk fighter, you can count on many getting killed by your countrymen already there.

Furballing may or may not improve your ACM skills, but it will certainly improve your SA, which is THE most important skill you can develop.

There's no reason to argue against one or the other since you can do both during any sortie.

One thing about furballers is that they usually tie up an equal number of the enemy. Therefore, they DO contribute to the strat game, albeit indirectly. Unless, of course, you would rather encounter the prospective enemy furballers waiting for you at 20k instead of whirling about down on the deck. Be careful what you wish for, ya know?

My regards,

Widewing

[Montezuma]

Strat is just a framework to create furballs.

[-ammo-]

furballing is therapuetic!

[WhiteHawk]

Well both aspects are important in AH.    As far is god-blessing the unbleievable importance of the furball, I can ask, how often did furballs occur in WW2?