Senate Democrats urging Clinton to attack Iraq over WMD

[midnight Target]

Which of those 'signers' of the above have come out saying that there are no WMD. Please provide a link.

[crowMAW]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Ironic huh and now some of the undersigned Democrats are doing the same thing, I hate politics...

You know I've been in this country for 14 years and three presidents. I seem to remember some discord between congressional democrats and Bush Sr. when it came to the first gulf war - but I dont recall it being particulary personal.

Now obviously with Clinton the attacks did become viciouly personal and it has continues with President Bush today.  

Is this normal for the Presidecy or is it a recent development or a throwback to old style dirty politics as often seen on the 19th century?

I believe your observation is a good one and is one I've been noticing my self.  It is more recent.  There have been plenty of scandals this century...Tea Pot Dome, Watergate, Iran-Contra, Whitewater/Monica.  Things got a little testy in Iran-Contra.  But it seems that the Whitewater investigation, which led to the Monica scandal, was filled with the most partisan politics I can recall in my lifetime. I'm not a huge fan of Clinton...I voted for Bush, Sr who I think was probably one of the best presidents we've ever had. But the Starr investigation and the repleblican back-biting really was embarrassing.  We spent $52 million taxpayer dollars to find out that Clinton, or rather his wife, did not have a significant enough role in the Whitewater S&L to convict, but it did uncover that the President was getting a blow job now and then...big whoop...if I had to stoop to get a blow job from someone that looks like Monica, I'd lie about it too.  $52 million to conclude that Billy got blown.  I do think what he did was wrong and he should have come clean (no pun intended) with the truth...hell it works for evangelists.  But instead of wasting more money on an impeachment trial, he should have gotten a sympathetic pat on the back and an issue of Playboy for the next time Monica went down so he could at least fanaticize that he was getting a hummer from a hottie.

I think that episode gave Dems the incentive to play tit-for-tat.

Just my guess, but I think some of this partisan politics has been due to the disappearance of the Southern Democrats.  These conservative fellows balanced Congress.  The liberals could not get too liberal or the Southern Democrats would vote with the Republicans.  And the Republicans could get some conservative legislation passed using the Southern Democrat cross-overs.  They were a moderating influence, which is now gone.  This leaves a very polarized Congress that sees every issue as a zero-sum game.

[Sandman]

Which is surprising, because the Dems have yet go after Bush with the same voracity as the Republicans and Clinton.

That's the real problem with the Dems... they lack energy, they lack focus. They are weak and irrelevant and the Republicans have done a marvelous job exploiting it.

Of course... Clinton was weak also. If had any balls at all he wouldn't have lied. He would have simply refused to answer the question.

[Arfann]

They're all politicians. They all lie, steal, cheat, and will send our kids off to a stupid war for 2 points in the polls or a few campaign contributions. Aren't we lucky?

[ra]

Of course... Clinton was weak also. If had any balls at all he wouldn't have lied. He would have simply refused to answer the question.

Not to sound sarcastic, but which one of his lies are you talking about here?

[Syzygyone]

Originally posted by Arfann
They're all politicians. They all lie, steal, cheat, and will send our kids off to a stupid war for 2 points in the polls or a few campaign contributions. Aren't we lucky?

The cynicism of your post, and of the sentiments of much of these threads for that matter, is terribly terribly sad.  I am curious though, why you all feel so poorly served by those that were elected to govern us?  Do you feel that there is anyone out there, in or out of office, would not be subject to the broad brush you use in your post?  If so, please share your thoughts.  If not, what are you all whining about?  Is it some sort of "I complain  therefore I am" type of political pholosophy.  Afterall, some of us think that with all its warts, it's still the best game on the planet.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by ra
Not to sound sarcastic, but which one of his lies are you talking about here?

Pick one.

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by midnight Target
Which of those 'signers' of the above have come out saying that there are no WMD. Please provide a link.

Nothing huh?

[Syzygyone]

Originally posted by midnight Target
Nothing huh?

MT, no disprespect, but I don't really think that is the inquiry and to make it so politicizes the issue unwisely.  That ought not be the inquiry.  IIRC, the worldwide concensus in January, amoungst the WHOLE world, even France, was that Iraq had WMD.  THe battle then was to have the UN inspectors find them.

Now, there are no WMD's found!  So, was the whole world simply wrong?  We're they all deluded?  Were they the victim of bad intelligence too?  I think not.  What I also think is that what we ought to be worried about is where did those weapons go that the world knew about in January?

[ra]

Originally posted by midnight Target
Nothing huh?

I believe the intent of the original post is to show that while the Democrat political machine is trying to accuse Bush of lying about WMD to trump up an excuse to invade Iraq, many senior Democrats on the Armed Services Committee believed that Iraq was indeed a WMD threat.   Therefore, one cannot take the Democrat Party seriously.

ra

[midnight Target]

I guess I wasn't being clear...

The point of this thread was something like "Those hypocritical Democrats...look how they say there are WMD one minute then change their minds later."

I'm just askin for some information on any Dem who has actually changed his or her tune...

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Originally posted by Syzygyone
I am curious though, why you all feel so poorly served by those that were elected to govern us?  

They're elected to govern us?!?! I thought they were supposed to simply be representatives of the people?... a means to concentrate several million voices into a couple hundred.
-SW

[Arfann]

Originally posted by Syzygyone
The cynicism of your post, and of the sentiments of much of these threads for that matter, is terribly terribly sad.  I am curious though, why you all feel so poorly served by those that were elected to govern us?  Do you feel that there is anyone out there, in or out of office, would not be subject to the broad brush you use in your post?  If so, please share your thoughts.  If not, what are you all whining about?  Is it some sort of "I complain  therefore I am" type of political pholosophy.  Afterall, some of us think that with all its warts, it's still the best game on the planet.

I agree with the "terribly sad" part. Terribly sad that the American people are so easily led by politicians instead of demanding it be the other way around.

[crowMAW]

Originally posted by ra
I believe the intent of the original post is to show that while the Democrat political machine is trying to accuse Bush of lying about WMD to trump up an excuse to invade Iraq, many senior Democrats on the Armed Services Committee believed that Iraq was indeed a WMD threat.   Therefore, one cannot take the Democrat Party seriously.

So does that imply that Sen. John Warner, R-VA, and Sen. Pat Roberts, R-KS, are either part of or capitulating to the Democratic political machine?  

And does it mean that if there are Republicans who believed that Saddam did have WMD but are now calling for investigations, then the Republican Party cannot be taken seriously?  Sen. John McCain, R-AZ made these two statements recently:

"I think that it's very appropriate for the Congress to have hearings on the whole issue."

"I'm satisfied that Saddam Hussein not only had weapons of mass destruction, but if we had not overthrown him, he would have went back to pursuing the development of weapons of mass destruction."

This is what is so surprising about this investigation...it is not just Democrats, but there are senior Republicans that are wondering if they were duped by the Administration and/or bad intelligence as well.

[Syzygyone]

Originally posted by Arfann
I agree with the "terribly sad" part. Terribly sad that the American people are so easily led by politicians instead of demanding it be the other way around.

And how, prey tell, do 280,000,000 people lead?