Author Topic: What has happened to AH?  (Read 5087 times)

Offline dracon

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What has happened to AH?
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2003, 08:47:16 PM »
I don't even know why I.....ahhh well.

Booming and Zooming is a tactic.  Got it??

As per Websters:
Main Entry: 1tac·tic
Pronunciation: 'tak-tik
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin tactica, from Greek taktikE, from feminine of taktikos
Date: 1640
1 : a device for accomplishing an end
2 : a method of employing forces in combat

BnZ tactics are used in planes and by pilots that fly planes that either don't turn well or don't maintain "E" well in a turn.

It is simple.  Know your ride and fly your ride the way you want to.  Use of GOOD tactics = landed Kills.

There are several arcade versions of this SIMM.  "QuakeBirds" so to speak.  You may want to try one on for size.  See if it fits!

Regards,
« Last Edit: June 07, 2003, 08:50:26 PM by dracon »

Offline rshubert

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Urchin,
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2003, 09:03:29 PM »
I'm sorry your targets won't cooperate with you.  Really.

Maybe they've heard of your magnificence.  I know you scare the pee right out of me, and I run away from all planes just in case one of them might be you.

You are one scary dude.  I'm losing bladder control, right now.

See you in tank town,

shubie

P.S.  Quit whining.  It's unbecoming in a killer monster like you.

Offline Hornet

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What has happened to AH?
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2003, 09:08:39 PM »
I don't think its harder to get kills it just may be that they're gonna be streakier now.

I've been off for a month, came up last night and upped from a badly capped base to start knocking the rust off. Got vulched a few times, but once I got wheels up I was surprised how timid things went. Half hearted gun passes and long long extends. There are definitely some new players who are more cagey than confident -- its not just pure e-fighter guys. I had nikis extending to friends rather than just go 1v1. So it was slower going than maybe it should have been...but eventually that type of gutlessness works against you too. Later that night I dropped in on a strikegroup of some sort, picked up 5scalps real quick -- even tho I came in higher E I stuck around for a good amount of time but everyone went defensive and stayed that way until dead. ymmv
Hornet

Offline Shane

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What has happened to AH?
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2003, 09:11:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by dracon
I don't even know why I.....ahhh well.

As per Websters:
Main Entry: 1tac·tic
1 : a device for accomplishing an end
2 : a method of employing forces in combat

Regards,


accomplishing what end?  boring the other guy to death?

i'd hardly call the way a typical dweeb does bnz "combat."
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
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Offline bustr

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What has happened to AH?
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2003, 11:10:34 PM »
Hey Urchin, I'm one of Shane's brats. He took me to the DA and educated me. I fly a LaLa only so I have enough speed to get alt, get distance, and get back into the fite before everyone runs away.:confused:

I find because of my LA7 I get alot of attention from higer alt folks. So I troll for suckers. I even troll so others have someone to pounce on. So if you want I fly for Knights. Come up, follow me around and I'll troll for fites for ya. People just fixate on LA7's and do the darndest things to kill them. :D

-bustr-

----Shane kicked my arse, then explained how he kicked my arse, then showed me my mistakes and kicked my arse with my own mistakes. I hope I get good enough to kick his arse back some day. My arse don't fit my seat very well now....OWWWWCHHHH----:)
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


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Offline BlkKnit

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What has happened to AH?
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2003, 11:19:21 PM »
Quote
what a touching story, glad it had a happy ending..


was a joke son...humor, ya know......ah, nevermind :p

Once a Knight is Never Enough

Offline Ack-Ack

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What has happened to AH?
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2003, 11:19:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ALF
Im not sure I completely understand this whine.  Are those that fly planes that don't turn on a dime expected to turnfight with Spits and such?  Is it no longer acceptable to extend out of range if you do not have the advantage and would end up dead?  Should we all just park on the runways and let others kill us so we are not called boring?  If I am diving on an enemy, am I now required to bleed of all my E so that I can be a sitting duck, and not to extend out of range and make another pass?

There certainly are many who cannot dive in with enough control of their E to push the advantage immediatly...but I hardly think this is cause to complain.


I think Urchin is talking about the ones you encounter that don't show any type of desire to fight.  These are the ones you see coalt in a 1v1 setting and they go into a panick dive to the nearest friendly horde or acks.  If they are in a P-51 or FW190, they turn tail and extend until they either make it to their own base (where they then proceed to dive to ack cover) or make it to some friendlies and then turn around and engage once they've got help.

Then there's the disappearance of ACM in the arena, which is quickly becoming a lost art in the MA.  While this behavior has been in all the online flights sims I've played, when I first started AH close to two years ago it wasn't as bad as it was now.  To me, it seemed to increase after the competition was announced and has continued ever since even though the competition is over with.  I guess dweeb habits are hard to break.


Ack-Ack
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Offline Ack-Ack

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What has happened to AH?
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2003, 11:30:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by dracon
I don't even know why I.....ahhh well.

Booming and Zooming is a tactic.  Got it??

As per Websters:
Main Entry: 1tac·tic
Pronunciation: 'tak-tik
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin tactica, from Greek taktikE, from feminine of taktikos
Date: 1640
1 : a device for accomplishing an end
2 : a method of employing forces in combat

BnZ tactics are used in planes and by pilots that fly planes that either don't turn well or don't maintain "E" well in a turn.

It is simple.  Know your ride and fly your ride the way you want to.  Use of GOOD tactics = landed Kills.

There are several arcade versions of this SIMM.  "QuakeBirds" so to speak.  You may want to try one on for size.  See if it fits!

Regards,


You don't seem to get it.  No one is saying that BnZ isn't a valid tactic and definitely isn't what Urchin was pointing out.  It's the people that don't fight at all or fight like a timid mouse that it's basically just a waste of everyone's time.  Like someone pointed out, BnZ doesn't mean zoom three sectors away until you reach some friendly help and then come back.  

IMO, another indicator that AH needs a formal training program.  It might not get rid of the problem 100% but at least it will teach players new tactics and might even give them the necessary testical fortitude to actually fight instead of flee.

Ack-Ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
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Offline Arlo

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What has happened to AH?
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2003, 11:39:53 PM »
Hell Ackie, most of the whinin' is exaggeration, at best. Trust me, when ya got a guy 1k behind ya, maxed out, despirately trying to catch ya and already typing about ya runnin' scared on "channel whine", then he ... doesn't really seem all there.

But hey, I've already got all sorts of players "seeing me do all sorts of mean, nasty things" all over the arena (sometimes at multiple places at the same time) so I'm certainly a candidate for the "group W bench."

"... and I turned over the piece of paper, and there, there on the
other side, in the middle of the other side, away from everything else on the other side, in parentheses, and capital letters, and in quotation marks, read the following words:

("KID, HAVE YOU REHABILITATED YOURSELF?") "
« Last Edit: June 07, 2003, 11:45:06 PM by Arlo »

Offline Ecke-109-

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What has happened to AH?
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2003, 07:02:21 AM »
Urchin,

i completly understand you outbursting frustration, and i agree 100%.
I wonder how this guys would play any kind of offline-flightsim.
But i am not shure if these kind of guys will find the way in to this forum for having a chance to read your post and think it over.

But you are talking about the most realistic part of this simulation...be shure,whatever you do in the game...there are always at least 75% stupids and ignorants around you.

Take Arlo for example.Before entering this forum, he puts on his blinders, and then he is well prepared for the hunt for the so called whiners.
This tour, he spend 20min in MA for one sortie.And much more time he spends just in this thread for giving useless comments.
So he shure knows what he is talking about.

Ecke

Offline moot

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What has happened to AH?
« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2003, 07:17:44 AM »
Only specialty of yours is sleezy BS, of course you have to hijack this into a whine discussion. Urchin knows what i meant.

I was saying that for the same players who 1) can't fly for chit, 2) will surely get a kick out of shooting down drones, and 3) couldn't tell the difference between those and real players, except that they get their arse handed so quick by the real players, that it's hardly fun at all, certainly not worth paying 15$ for.

Because otherwise all that's left "happy" with the game is the big mass of undescriminating lemmings. they might as well be playing FA.

Quote
IMO, another indicator that AH needs a formal training program. It might not get rid of the problem 100% but at least it will teach players new tactics and might even give them the necessary testical fortitude to actually fight instead of flee.

look at that, AKAK says the same thing as me.

Quote
Hell Ackie, most of the whinin' is exaggeration, at best. Trust me, when ya got a guy 1k behind ya, maxed out, despirately trying to catch ya and already typing about ya runnin' scared on "channel whine", then he ... doesn't really seem all there.


what does that have to do with quality of dogfighting falling in the crapper since the lemmings tactics became the only one?
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Offline Kweassa

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What has happened to AH?
« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2003, 07:52:06 AM »
It's the existence of free 51s, 190Ds, and La-7s, and Typhoons, I tell ya.  :D

 Before the D-9 and the La-7, only the P-51 folk ran away. Since the P-51 folk are either very good pilots or crap newbies who's been tricked into the 51 due to the hype around it, about half of those 51s you can catch and kill. People were never too keen for the Typhoon, and the G-10 is a castrated diver.

 Now, there are D-9s and La-7s, planes which are as fast as the P-51 at the deck.

* Good news: we have variety
* Bad news: we now have variety of late war super planes with various people who choose to run, who previously - when there were no La-7s and D-9s - when they didn't use the D-9 or the La-7, were usually caught and shot down. At least the D-9 is horrible when it comes to a close-quarter maneuvering contest... The La-7..?  *Feh !*

 Frankly, under these circumstances where hoardes of Spits, N1K2s and La-7s and P-51s are around, anybody who isn't confident enough to try and slug out a 1vs1 if given a chance, will just choose to pick a 51 or an La-7. Hey, at least they don't lose anymore!

 So, as more and more mediocre/new pilots start using La-7s and P-51s, veterans get frustrated - they see everybody running. So, they give up their loved planes and choose to also fly La-7s and P-51s. Quite understandable - you do a couple of merges, and the P-51 or the La-7 soars downwards and runs.. you think to yourself... "oooh, this friggin 109 of mine.. If I were only in a La-7.. oooohhh... :mad:"

 So then what happens? Newbies and mediocre pilots like me stand even lower chance than they had, so they completely stick with the runner planes - either they choose a better plane and do at least a teensey weensey bit better, or remain a stupid mediocre pilot like me :D

 ...

 And voila - a vicious circle is born!

 .....


 Seems like a whiney, funny analysis? Maybe, but it may hold even deeper truth than you'd realize.

 When were the new planes introduced? When did these 'AH is not like it was before' complaints began? And the 'suicidal no-skill pilots' complaints? It roughly starts around version two, three versions ago - AH community suddenly grew twice its numbers, the La-7 and the Fw190D-9 was introduced together.

 What about ACM complaints? If you're in a fast plane that runs away from all other planes except the same type, where's the motivation for the pilot to learn complicated maneuvers, when they can simply point nose down and run anytime?

 Oh, since this method cannot be applied when the enemy flies the same super-speed plane as you... voila, there you have it. The birth of the massive numbers of people who choose to run if they meet a plane either higher than him, or meet a same plane 1vs1.

 ...

 It's not something like as if a part of the human race who loves flight sim games suddenly mutated their DNA cells into 'runner mode'. People are always as they used to be.

 Then, the dynamics of change lies within the change of the game - available plane sets, in particular.
 
 ..

 The solution lies in moving the arena environment into an era before this extreme emphasis on speed was born - an era where not every speed queen also carried hoardes of ordnance, so they can ignore/pass the interceptors and go auger straight at the field(hello? Typhies and 51s, sound familiar?)

*Deliberate Hijack*

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Offline Gixer

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What has happened to AH?
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2003, 07:57:58 AM »
AKAK,

Sometime let me get my landing grear up and I'll try some of that ACM stuff with ya...








Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Then there's the disappearance of ACM in the arena, which is quickly becoming a lost art in the MA.  While this behavior has been in all the online flights sims I've played, when I first started AH close to two years ago it wasn't as bad as it was now.  To me, it seemed to increase after the competition was announced and has continued ever since even though the competition is over with.  I guess dweeb habits are hard to break.


Ack-Ack

Offline GRUNHERZ

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What has happened to AH?
« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2003, 08:08:09 AM »
It has become pretty bad, and it isnt old style agressive e-fifghting. Literally they extend 4-6k and then try some sort of lame HO and they zoom right up if you dont stay still in one of their "attack" dives.   The last time I flew in the MA I was litterly shocked when this Yak9U actually followed my G10 evasives for two whole rolling scissors!!  

Anyway I have taken to flying A20s, Il2s and SBD-5s as fighters in order to make them less afraid - but an incredible number still choose to run from these light bombers after only a few lazy passes - its really quite sad. Perhaps I should fly the Kate as I hear it has no forward armament, but ten again they could always decide to run away from the single 7.7mm tailgun...

I'm guessing its all the newbs and strategy langrab types who dont care about airlaine fighting....

Offline GScholz

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What has happened to AH?
« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2003, 08:12:33 AM »
HTC and a misguided part of the comunity has finally made the MA feel like a real war. Long periods of boredom between a few short moments of intense action. The strat war has taken over the MA and I blame it and all its followers for this unfourtunate turn in gameplay. A few 30k ponies screaming in at 400 mph, impossible to intercept without a 262 or 163, porking fuel and then either augering or running. Then the horde falls upon the helpless airfield and its defenders like a swarm of locusts.

I've been getting a lot more frustration rather than fun from this game the last couple of months. I'm seriously considering quitting, if not for the fact that this game was a realy good game, and I'm hoping it will get better again, but I'm loosing faith day by day.
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