What has happened to AH?

[dracon]

OK ack-ack,

I think I do get it.  Once I Boom I can then Zoom duh!  Unless of course I have picked up a "wag" (tail).  I will now extend (run) as far as needed to: lose him, make him become disinterested, BORED, or anything else that removes him from my "6".  I now Zoom to pickup "Alt" and "E" and re-engage the fight on MY terms.
IMHO Urchins post is no more than a disguised whine against BnZers.
I don't fly a lot but I'm up most nights for an hour +.  I don't always fly the Pony.  I like to do what I call Spit-Balling.  FurBalling in a Spit, or Field Defense Mode.  I like JABO, Cv Ops, C47 Ops, etc, etc.  Point is I just don't see what Urchin sees.  I find plenty of fights.  I lose more than I win.  Hehehehe I know WHAT to Do I just don't always Do it!

Oh well, here, have a cool URL: http://www.refdesk.com

CYAs,

[bozon]

when I find myself chasing planes from below in a jug or p-38, I know no good fight will come out of it. When I give them my tail and still they won't attack I know it's hopless.

Every new player goes through this phase in which he just want to survive the fight (after being shot down again and again and again and...) so they tend to fly lalas, 190s, p51s and run away at the first sign of trouble. It's a normal phase - been there, tried that. It was ALWAYS like that (over my 2 years).

The "influx" of new players and some "outflux" of veterens means a bigger fraction of the population is in the "running" phase.

I don't like it, It's a shame, it's not good, it's natural.

we're gonna have to live with it or leave.

Bozon

[Furball]

Originally posted by BlkKnit
was a joke son...humor, ya know......ah, nevermind

i noticed, i was joking too

[Hornet]

hopefully ah2 will allow HTC to return AH:Classic to exactly that -- its traditional lineage. Bottom line is this lynchpins of this genre with titles like Air Warrior, Warbirds, and Aces High, didnt grow on the revenue of folks who were addicted to capturing territory, and arenas didnt use to be designed with the landgrab as the primary concern.

In all this mmog madness there still remains nothing as exciting and compelling as a good dogfight -- the fact that even in the crowded arenas we have today guys can see a plane in mid-manuever and just know "that's so and so" is pretty cool.

It's not a lost art yet -- though we're 1 "fighters don't need guns anymore" thread away from eerily parroting the real world

[moot]

Dracon Urchin isnt talking about BnZ. There's no need for it to be bnz to be dweebish and anti-dogfight-gameplay.

If they did knew how to BnZ, Urchin would say so, give an appreciation of some kind. It certainly doesnt sound like well made on-offs of proper BnZ of a G10 or P38 or even well made loose deuce for example. Where you stay in guns range of the bogie but out of his killshot angles using superior plane power and or energy, that's proper E management and use.  And not: making a really bad pass, egressing for FIVE miles, then coming back way too fast and at wrong angle and missing again, ad nauseum.
Total absence of unexpected figures or hidden E. Don't even think about not considering the dogfight and opponent won until you've countered and won each and every tactical attempt he makes.

To kill, you don't need to wait for the guy to become bored and disengage unless you aren't able to win the fight while he is.

[lazs2]

kweasa has got it I think.  the arena is a combo of early, mid and late war planes.  This causes the major part of the problem.  the different era planes require different tactics... each era is viewed as dweeby by the other since they are opossite.  We need "areas' within the arena for early, mid and late war.

The next part is the fact that there is a huge influx uf new players... New players are good but... a lot of them fear virtual death and humiliation.. some may have "been good' in another sim and now are afraid to get killed in the learning curve so they fall back on the safest tactics.  course... they won't ever learn much that way...  the other new guys are.... new.. they are just following what they percieve as the way things work.  some of the older players that never were any good at AC champion timid gangvbanging too.

the last and most important is... the new huge maps and field capture...  Spread out the action and you not only dilute it but exagerate the problems outlined in the first two paragraphs.   Fields are too far apart and there aren't enough/tough enough CV's...  put the fields about 10% closer and everyone will have a good fight... In pizza the fields can be allmst 2 sectors away!  add the fact that they mayu be useless because of gamey fuel porking.... well... loook at the mess.
lazs

[Arlo]

Since when in hades is making sure you stay in your opponent's gun range at all times part of "proper e management and use?" That's bout as goofy as anything you could "teach" someone. And 1 to 2k (or hell, even 3k) out from you isn't five miles. And yeah, there's plenty of whiners confusin' the two. Which more than likely accounts for the "sudden increase" in players who "don't wanna fight."

A whine is a whine is a whine. It's easy to identitfy. They all break down to "You didn't let me kill you, no fair."

[lazs2]

As for urchin... He fights all types of fights.  he will take on two or three from a disadvantage and probly kick their gangbangin butts.  I flew with him last night in the gawdawful pizza map or "the long flight to nothing" map..  we flew p40's  b fo rme e for him... we had to fly allmost 2 sectors to find a fight..  If i crippled a plane with the b, 4 kill starved teammates would dive in front of me to "finish him off and save me in case he turned around"

All the fights these daays are of two types... defend against gangbangers from your field or... fly all the way to their field to gangbang or be all by yourself against 20 "defenders"

The maw (not to single them out) seemed to define the new gameplay... have at least 5 attackers for every toolshed that needed to be knocked down.  accidentaly flying with them was a total waste of time... I'm sure they had fun and felt like they accomplished something but for me it was "a long flight to nothing".
lazs

[dracon]

Yep,
It's Sunday morning with 184 in the MA.  I just watched our illustrious Urchin land a 6 kill and 3 kill sortie in less than an hour.

He musta found something to fight.

_ _

[nopoop]

The main reason for this ongoing problem is a lack of a formalized training problem ala' WB.

Simple as that. The new guy has no place to go to learn his craft. The trainers that we do have here are few and have no real place to work. To suggest the TA in it's present form is a training arena is silly.

The company has it's reasons. Thats obvious. What they are, I don't know.

[BlkKnit]

Originally posted by Furball
i noticed, i was joking too

Oh...ok so, I'm a bit dense at times.

[BlkKnit]

Originally posted by nopoop
The main reason for this ongoing problem is a lack of a formalized training problem ala' WB.
Simple as that. The new guy has no place to go to learn his craft.  

Formal training...that would be cool, but, IMO, squads should do that to a certain degree.  I know not everyone is in a squad, and that squads dont always have time or even the personnel to do this, but it was kinda what i was hoping for when i joined MAW.  There is always discussion of "training nights", but I have yet to make it to one (or anyone else, that I have noticed), time is hard to find for that stuff, and I am not laying blame there, its as much my fault as it is my squadies (more mine actually).

Now I have read the stuff at netaces and try to use it, but I'm never sure if I am doing any of it right, and still dont know names for various moves.  My evasives are fair (sometimes) but my shooting bites!   Once I get on a guys six, its over....he's got me right where he wants me.

[ccvi]

If running is the only way to survive then so be it - no matter wether this is a result of a bad situation or just lack of experience.

nopoop is right. WB has a place where you can go and meet a trainer at predefined hours. In AH the only way to get in contact is an email address (AFAIK, but maybe there's something hidden somewhere, but that wont be found by most new players anyway).

In WB you can identify a trainer by his callsign. They teach you the basics and more. In AH they dish out 10 bucks for someone who might not have been there for longer than one month but answers the most questions like "how do i raise my gear" or "how do i open my chute".

[rshubert]

And one sticks out in my mind.  The planeset does seem to dictate tactics.  Of course, that is like the real world.

BUT, that makes me reconsider the "rotating planeset" idea I have seen on a couple of other posts.  Rotate the MA planeset with the maps, and see what happens...

It might be interesting.  For everybody.

But please don't call me a no-cojones coward when I leave a fight I am at a serious disadvantage in.  On the one hand, typical "furballer" attitude is that the newbies are all suicide dweebs.  Speaking out of the other side of their mouth, they say that newbies trying to survive are cowards.

Which one is it?

[Batz]

You guys might wanna check the stats of those saying "running" is allthey can do. The guy here with the loudest mouth average 2 kills  per hour in the ct and had a kd of of .5.

I bet if check the others they have the same.

Its one thing to prefer a style of fighting that best suits your skill level but when you look at the stats and see that your style hasnt helped ya 1 bit you wonder why someone would stick with it.

Because it comes down to the fact that some folks are just afraid to be killed be another player. They would rather fly into the ground chasing those pesky fuel tanks or hangers. I mean they are getting killed some how. With kills per hour below 3 or 4 they avoid almost all fights.

dracon you havent gotta clue. Energy fighting and BnZ dont mean half assed aerial strafing pass then run 2 sectors to friends or ack. The more you type away the more obvious it is that you are clueless. Urchin can show ya if ya ask.

Dracon kd .4 kills per hour 2

Blknit KD .6 kills per hour 3

Tardlo CT KD .3 kills per hour  2

Kill per hour is the best way to get and idea of someones fighting style. Kills per hour can be affected by the plane you fly. Flying slower planes can mean it takes longer to get to the fight.

Urchin has 12 kills per hour main.

I havent flown in the main in months but my last 2 ct kill per death are around 10 per hour.

My main average was usually between 5 - 8 kills per hour which is average overall.

YMMV