p-41

[bockusCk]

I was talkin to my uncle the other day about ww2 and got on the subject of fighters and as he was rambling on he came up with P-41. He is a little hard to understand(old and smokes alot) But if I heard him right he said that the British spitfire was/started out as a USA design w/ a radial engine (P-41) that was "given" to the Brits. Who didn't like the engine and inserted the Rolls engine. With the new RR engine fire would shoot out of the manifolds and thus the name Spitfire was born.
I looked around a bit on the web, couldnt find any mention about the P-41. I am guessing USA never built one and just handed over the design to the Brits.
Anybody know?

Bakus

[Staga]

The Spitfire was designed by Reginald Mitchell and plane had its roots in late twenties/early thirties Schneider Trophy race planes (Supermarine S6B etc).

What stuff does your uncle smoke?

[Staga]

cut'n'paste:

Reginald J. Mitchell was born in Talke, Staffordshire, on 20th May, 1895. After leaving school he worked as an apprentice at a locomotive works and attended night classes at technical college.

In 1916 Mitchell went to work at Supermarine Aviation Works in Southampton. He began designing seaplanes and by 1922 they began breaking speed records. Now chief designer at the company, his Supermarine S6B, won the Schneider Trophy on 13th September, 1931. During the contest the aircraft reached 340 mph (547 km/h).

In 1934 the Air Ministry announced that it was looking for a new fighter plane. Mitchell, whose company was now part of Vickers Aviation, decided to adapt his Supermarine seaplane, in an attempt to meet the requirements of the Royal Air Force.

The new all-metal single-seater fighter plane, the Supermarine Spitfire Mk. I, had several technical features of the earlier racing seaplane. It had the same structure and aerodynamic lines. However, it had a new engine, the 1,030 hp Rolls Royce Merlin II and carried 8 machine-guns.

The first Spitfire prototype appeared on 5th March, 1936 and flew at 350 mph (563 km/h) and could ascend at approximately 2,500 ft (762 m) per minute. With its slender aerodynamic lines and elliptical-plan wings, it was claimed at the time, to be the smallest and cleanest aircraft that could be constructed around a man and an engine.

The Royal Air Force was impressed with its performance and in June, 1936, it ordered 310 aircraft. The Supermarine Spitfire Mk. I went into production in 1937. Reginald J. Mitchell died of cancer in Southampton on 11th June, 1937. He was the subject of the feature film First of the Few (1942).

[bockusCk]

Didnt really think he was right but it is real hard to understand the way he talks and he aint quite right anymore, startin to lose it as you can see. But thanks man, I couldnt find anything on it.

[GRUNHERZ]

The spitfires eleptical wing was based on that of the He70, which really impressed the british so the spits wing design team leader based the spits wing on that of the He70. Otherwise the spitfire was borm out of supermarines racing experience.

[Staga]

"But if I heard him right he said that the British spitfire was/started out as a USA design w/ a radial engine (P-41) that was "given" to the Brits. Who didn't like the engine and inserted the Rolls engine."

He might be talking about P-36/P-40 planes.
P-36 Hawks (Curtiss H-75) were having radial engines, P-40 Tomahawks/Warhawks/Kittyhawks (Curtiss H-81 & H-87 models) were having Allison V-12 engines and in some cases Rolls Royce Merlins (like in Spitfires).

[swoopy]

Watch the video "first of the few" classic film bout the spitfire, very sad about mitchell, died before he saw what the spitfire came to be olny saw the prototype fly after the test pilot few by his house. Its a must see video

[Furious]

sounds like he mixed up a few stories, but similar to the evolution of the p-51(minus the radial).

[rshubert]

Originally posted by bockusCk
Anybody know?

Bakus

Follow this link to the USAF museum pursuit gallery entry about the P41.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/p41.htm

Interesting stuff, could keep you busy all day!!

[rshubert]

Merriam Webster dictionary entry:

Main Entry: spit·fire
Pronunciation: 'spit-"fIr
Function: noun
Date: 1680
: a quick-tempered or highly emotional person

I'm thinkin' that's the source of the name.

[bockusCk]

So there was a p41, but it dont look nutin like a spit. I guess he just got wires crossed over the years

Thanks for p41 link

Bakus

[bockusCk]

I just went looking around in there and the xp-42 DOES look alot like a spit, hmmm maybe the old fart does know something

[hazed-]

this is a side veiw of the XP-42.http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/p42-2.jpg


lol THATS NO SPITFIRE

it looks more like a kittyhawk/p40 to me

His story almost matches perfectly the P51.

P51 was alison engined and given to Brits who didnt like it.
They then added the Merlin engine and the 'Mustang' was born.USA called them P51s but brits , like all their planes gave it a name (mustang)
It then became one of the best fighters of WW2.

Also its a little known fact that the propellor hubs were a special american made type on the spitfires.Without those parts from the US it would not have been the plane it was apparently.Whether this was because the brits couldnt produce enough of them and so got them from the USA or it was an american design that they used under licence i dont know.This is the ONLY claim on the spitfire that America has. Mitchell , the designer was a real public school type english toff and its well documented that he was a fussy designer of the lines and angles on the spitfire, He stressed it should not only fly right but also 'look' right!. Not the normal kind of thing for a fighter design requirement. supermarine was an all english organisation and the plane won the seaplane races as a british team.Hardly something you could do if you borrowed the airframe.

Id say he got a few stories mixed up but hell who can blame him.Can you imagine the stories going around during the war!

[Widewing]

To read about the XP-41 (an ancestor to the P-47), go here.

My regards,

Widewing

[DiabloTX]

Originally posted by Furious
sounds like he mixed up a few stories, but similar to the evolution of the p-51(minus the radial).

I agree with this.  He was confusing numbers (41/51) as well as engines (Allison/Rolls Royce).  I once had an elderly gentleman try to convince me that the P-38 saved Britain during the BoB.  I just smiled and nodded politely!