Anyone know anything about Electrical Work?

[muckmaw]

I bought an Attic Venting fan, and had it installed by Mr. Handyman, inc.

BTW, for you None-Do-it-yourselfers...avoid this company at all costs!

Anyway, the guy planted the fan, and went to run the wires to the power line that, until this point, only ran a lightbulb.

So here's the deal. Connect the fan, it runs. Flip the switch off, and the 15amp circuit breaker blows!

WTF is this?

So after letting the guy fiddle with it for another hour, I decided to cut my losses and hire a real electrician. I had him CUT and TAPE OFF the wire going from the Fan to the switch.

Ready for this? If you flip the swithc now..IT STILL BLOWS THE BREAKER, even though it's not connected to the freakin fan!!!!!

If anyone can offer advice, I would appreciate it. I don't want to get screwed into any unnessary electrical work.

Thanks in advance.

[Eagler]

he's got your wires crossed

maybe a dead short

or the circuit he tied into was borderline overloaded or your breaker is bad and flips when it should hold.

your  handyman should have known that much, be sure to let the place know who sent him out ...

[ra]

If you flip the swithc now..IT STILL BLOWS THE BREAKER, even though it's not connected to the freakin fan!!!!!

You mean if you try to turn on the light?

If so, handyguy probably messed up a connection in the switch box.  The electrician who disconnected it should have checked that the switch still worked.  Cutting off the new wire wouldn't fix a bad conx in the box.

[muckmaw]

Originally posted by Eagler
he's got your wires crossed

maybe a dead short

or the circuit he tied into was borderline overloaded or your breaker is bad and flips when it should hold.

your  handyman should have known that much, be sure to let the place know who sent him out ...

Thanks guys. This BBS is like a database about anything you ever wanted to know.

So can the problem be solved with a new, higher AMP breaker if the wires are not messed up in the box?

Ra- The light is gone! It was removed to connect the fan. The breaker blows when you throw the switch, even though the switch is connected to anything.

[ra]

Ra- The light is gone! It was removed to connect the fan. The breaker blows when you throw the switch, even though the switch is connected to anything.

Apparently it's connected to the circuit breaker.  
If none of the wires in the switchbox is crossed, it could be a bad switch.

[Syzygyone]

I play one around the house.
Sounds like couple of things:

Could be a short somewhere in the line, i.e. someone drove a nail  or screw in the jnciton box and it is shorting across hot and ground. Or, you could have a bad breaker, or one that is too sensitive.

I would't up the amps on a new breaker.  That would do bad things to insurance if there ever was a fire.  But, I'd  try a new breaker of the same amperage.  Also, a good electrician should be able to tell if there is a short anywhere on that line.

Best of luck!

[capt. apathy]

So can the problem be solved with a new, higher AMP breaker if the wires are not messed up in the box?

NO, all this will do is let the problem get worse before the breaker blows.  it's probably something stupid. like holding the wire up by driving a nail through it.

I'd
SWITCH THE BREAKER TO OFF
then remove the switch and put wire nuts on the ends of the wires running to the breaker box.  
then switch the breaker on
if it blows then you have a problem in the wires to the box.

if not
SWITCH THE BREAKER TO OFF
then put the switch back in but don't conect the wires he put in leading to the fan.
then turn on the breaker and move the switch on/off.
if the breaker blows either when you switch it on or when you move the switch, you have a bad switch, replace it, then repeat these steps.

if not
SWITCH THE BREAKER TO OFF
and connect the new wires, take the tape off the end of them and replace it with wire nuts(more reliable than tape)
then switch the breaker,
 if it blows he's damaged the wires and they are shorting
replace them with a fresh run of wire, you can tape the new wires to the old and pull the new in while you pull the old out.
hook up the new wire and repeat.

if you've made it this far the next step would be to hook the fan back up and see what happens.

the only really hard part of electrical (after you know the basics) is making sure you use the right guage wire.  when in doubt bigger is better.
also always SWITCH THE BREAKER TO OFF.  if you are the only one home fine otherwise tape over the breaker in the off position, or if you have children around who are old enough to throw breakers put somebody to guard the box so you aren't suprised by a live wire.

also never up the amps of a breaker or fuse(or god forbid do that stupid penny in the fuse trick) to solve the problem.  the amperage of the breaker is set by the size of the wire coming from it.  if you up breaker amperage without changing out the wire you will allow the breaker to give the wire more amperage than it can handle and possibly burn down your house.

[Mini D]

First thing... DO NOT PUT IN A BIGGER BREAKER.  At least... not unless you want an electrical fire.

You should have wiring with two wires and perhaps a ground (bare copper wire between the two shielded copper wires).  Only one of the wires should go through the light switch.  The other should go around it.

You haven't said very much about the exact setup, but you should be able to remove your light switch (with the breaker off) and look behind it where you should see an incoming wire with one of the shielded wires going to the bottom screw of the light switch and the other going to an electrical wing-nut.  You should also see a wire coming from the fan to the light switch with one wire going to the top screw of the light switch with the other going to the same electrical wing-nut as the lower wire.  He may also have the bare copper ground wires going to yet another wingnut.

That's pretty much how it should look.  My money says he tried to tie all the wires through the light switch.

MiniD

[Eagler]

if you aren't farmiliar with a VOM, call someone who is

a larger breaker may cause the wires to fry and burn down the house - depends on the loading

keep the breaker off until a pro checks it out - hopefully there isn't anything else important on the circuit

gl

[Gadfly]

Your best bet is to run an extension cord to your nieghbors garage, then just strip the end of the extension cord and wire it to your attic fan.  You can use bare wire too, say about 20 guage.  Wire nuts and tape are for sissies, and you should always DOUBLE the amperage on any circuit breaker that you replace.












And keep up the payments on your homeowners insurance, by all means.....

[GrimCO]

Hey there Muck,

It's one of two things...

When he taped the wires off, they're touching eachother inside the tape and are causing a direct short. Check that first...

If nothing is connected to the breaker any longer (the fan or the light), even a bad breaker won't trip when you flip the switch. This means the switch is bad and is shorting out.

DO NOT put a bigger breaker in. That is not your problem.

[muckmaw]

Alright..I get it...No Bigger Breaker.

Now where is that fire extnguisher...

He DID run ALL the wires into the switch box. That's number 1.

You guys have been most helpful, and I apreaciate the time you took out of your busy lives to write some of those long posts.

and Thank you!

[Batz]

He should took an amp reading before he decided to use that circuit. Also the fan motor should tell what start up amps are.

Add the two together and if they exceed 15amps it will trip.

If he crossed the hot and nuetral it will trip.

I assume its Romex being a house. Did he cut into it and make a joint? or did he tie into a joint some where else?

Is the fan disconnected altogether and did he just leave it like that? If not:

Make sure the breaker is off. Be advised that more then 1 circuit maybe ran through 1 junction box. You really need a meter to make sure. Once you are sure the power is off ,disconnect the fan if.  In that junction box make sure all the colored wires are wire nutted together, and all the nuetrals (white) are nutted together and all the bare copper and/ or Green (ground)and twisted together

If you dont know where the junction is you can be in the attic and have some flip the breaker and you will hear it when it goes to ground. just make sure any electronics you have on that circuit are unplugged.

If he disconnected the fan:

Make sure the breaker is off and then check to see  if any of  joints are loose and that there are no exposed wires (white or colored) wires arent exposed and that they arent touching anything metal (they shouldnt touch anything at all. If they are loose get a wire nut and screw it on and maybe some electrical tape.)

Before you mess with it make sure its dead. Its good to keep a cheap amp/volt meter around the house so you have it on hand to trace out problems.

When it trips what all goes out? If you cant find a suitable circuit to tie into and if you have an open breaker space it may be easier to get some romex and run a new circuit for the fan. But this means messing in the panel. Unless you know what you are doing dont fek with it.

DO NOT PUT A LARGER BREAKER IN

Something is grounded and you need to trace it out.

[Thorns]

Let's see......remove fuse, insert penny, reinstall fuse.  Alert wife if she see's any smoke, not to be alarmed, it's only the plastic melting off some bad wires.  It will stop as soon as the wires burn through.....call me at work if you notice this.

Disclaimer:  Please don't try this at home, this experiment was fictional, and just for the sake of re-enactment of people who owned homes in the 1950's

Thorns