Please FIX the Panzer and M8

[Wotan]

if ya have any then show it.

Pilots stories are just that stories.

They were many discussion about this on different boards. They all had specifics as to ground clearenceof enemy armored vehicles aoa etc. I'm not going to waste my time cutting and pasting but inorder for that method to be "instructed" the ground clearence and angle of attack plus road surface has to be known as well.

Now follow along. Very few roads were paved or hardened to a point that would allow a "bounce" in ww2 except at a very lo aoa. and I mean very lo. The people who would develope such "instructions" would know this. And if they did they would know it would be impossible. They would also have some idea of how the enemy vehicles are armored (see stagas post). They also designed the ap round and know its capabilities.

What training manual do you have the "instructs" pilots to "bounce"  50cal rounds off the ground inorder to "kill" an armored vehicle.

No pilot account can make it true because 1 it is impossible.  

Its not a question of its effectivenes because again it is impossible. Why waste "instruction" time on the impossible.

You made the claim so prove it.

[Seeker]

Wotan, I think you and I are arguing about two different things...

If I understand you correctly, you hold that it was an impractical, if not impossible technique.

I agree. I don't think it would work either.

Nonetheless, that has nothing to do with the instructions the poor schmucks in the field were given

Then again, I think we're all aware of the sometimes preposterus advice sometimes given by rear area officers to men serving at the front; armour plating being refused for Spitfires as it would "spoil the plane's balance", the subject we're currently discussing and eating carrots to improve night vision are just some easy examples.

I'll dig up the posts as soon as I can and put them up here, but we're talking of an eighty year old gentleman, it'll be in his own sweet time.

[Staga]

"Men against Tanks, A History of Ant-Tank Warfare" by John Weeks.
Ammunition type, range and penetration. Armour type not specified.

Various 20mm, range 400yds, penetr. 0,6-1 inch
Boys AT-Rifle, range 300yds, penetr. 0,5inch
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"Handbook on USSR Military forces".
12,7mm MG with B-22 API, 200yds, pen. 20mm
20mm ShVAK BS API, 1000yds, pen. 25mm
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"Technical Ammunition Guide series2 pamphlet8, British AT-rifle ammunition 1917-1945" by Labbet&Brown. 7 out from 10 bullets penetrated armour, range 100m, angle of hit 20 degree.
Boys AT-rifle, cartridge SA AP .55inch Mk1, penetr. 16mm and with Mk2 ammunition 19mm.
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"Military Small arms of the 20th century", Hogg&Weeks.
Boys AT-Rifle, 300yds, angle 0 degree, pen.21mm
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"WW2 Tanks", Eric Grove.
20mm KWK30, range 500m, Angle 0 degr., penetr.24mm
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I couldn't find penetration data for .50cal (12,7mm) but if 20mm AT-rifles and cannons had problems to penetrate 20mm armour even from optimal angle from 100meter I found it hard to believe 12,7mm can kill/disable tanks.
Does anyone have penetr.values for Hispano?