NII VVS Discredited?

[funkedup]

Check out the latest issue of Air and Space.  It discusses the Soviet evaluation of captured F-86 aircraft.  One of the NII engineers details how he was politically denounced for declaring the F-86's LCOS superior to the reflector sight in the MiG-15.  
I think this might explain some of the "interesting" Soviet performance data for western aircraft that is used by Oleg Maddox and the like...

[Pei]

Could you post a link or was this article hardcopy only?

Thanks

[Pooh21]

Who would have thunk that the commies might lie!!!??!

NKVD visiting lavochkn factory
"Unca Joe doesnt like the performance on the la7 into the gulag with you!"
Return visit 2 days later.
"Unca Joe is pleased with the improvments on the la7"

[Fishu]

But Soviet Union is generally known as the world wide truth, how could they come up with improper test data?

[hazed-]

Originally posted by Pooh21
Who would have thunk that the commies might lie!!!??!

NKVD visiting lavochkn factory
"Unca Joe doesnt like the performance on the la7 into the gulag with you!"
Return visit 2 days later.
"Unca Joe is pleased with the improvments on the la7"

yeah whereas Britain and the USA NEVER utter a single white lie do we? yeah its just the commies who fail to tell the truth.

lol

[HoHun]

Hi Funked,

>Check out the latest issue of Air and Space.  It discusses the Soviet evaluation of captured F-86 aircraft.  One of the NII engineers details how he was politically denounced for declaring the F-86's LCOS superior to the reflector sight in the MiG-15.  

I'm sure it was OK for the engineers to record all the data that shows the F-86's LCOS to be superior. The "criminal" step merely was to make the final conclusion that the F-86's LCOS was indeed superior.

This way of thinking isn't unique to the Stalinistic system - I'm sure Galilei would have recognized it instantly :-)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[GRUNHERZ]

Well thats why you should never trust russians- at least for the next hundred years till they commie filth generation is fully gone. You see they combine the traditional russian inferiority complex, taken with some usual slavic boastfulness, and mix it with it some good old communist truth concepts and the end result is - well we all know just ask Boroda...

[udet]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Well thats why you should never trust russians- at least for the next hundred years till they commie filth generation is fully gone. You see they combine the traditional russian inferiority complex, taken with some usual slavic boastfulness, and mix it with it some good old communist truth concepts and the end result is - well we all know just ask Boroda...

hahahahahaha....well said Grun

[rshubert]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Well thats why you should never trust russians- at least for the next hundred years till they commie filth generation is fully gone. You see they combine the traditional russian inferiority complex, taken with some usual slavic boastfulness, and mix it with it some good old communist truth concepts and the end result is - well we all know just ask Boroda...

Tell us how you really feel.  Don't hold back--it causes stress and future heart problems.

BTW, I have to agree, except that I don't know if 100 years is long enough.  These guys still want to dominate the world, IMO.

shubie

[funkedup]

I'm not sure that all of our readers understand the seriousness of political denunciation under Stalin's rule.  There may have been political pressures on scientists in the US or UK, but nothing like the brutal mechanisms of the communist bureaucracy.  I give the NII-VVS findings no more credence than I would give a comic book.

[GRUNHERZ]

--- wind up Boroda talking tin doll ---
--- sound of spring winding up, gears ratcheting ---
--- set doll on smooth fllor surface ---
--- watch him roll accross the floor singing to tune of soviet anthem---

Stalin was greatsest russian leader of all time, he was great father to his people - who all loved him! Praise Stalin!

[Pei]

Originally posted by funkedup
I'm not sure that all of our readers understand the seriousness of political denunciation under Stalin's rule.  There may have been political pressures on scientists in the US or UK, but nothing like the brutal mechanisms of the communist bureaucracy.  I give the NII-VVS findings no more credence than I would give a comic book.

Off to the GULAG with you!

[Tilt]

Originally posted by funkedup
Check out the latest issue of Air and Space.  It discusses the Soviet evaluation of captured F-86 aircraft.  One of the NII engineers details how he was politically denounced for declaring the F-86's LCOS superior to the reflector sight in the MiG-15.  
I think this might explain some of the "interesting" Soviet performance data for western aircraft that is used by Oleg Maddox and the like...

Were his findings re written to put a better spin on the MiG?..........

How many folk here work for companies that actually (once you have worked thru the veneer of your own propaganda) do not make the best product on the market (your product technicians will know this)......... would they be critised if they published the data proving it?

RE GPW VVS AC

early aircraft under TSagi  design acceptance trials (Lagg 3, Yak1, Mig3) were hugely misrepresented as meeting performance criteria they could not meet. Planes were stripped of essential items to get them thru speed and climb tests and then had tanks added to meet range and endurance tests.

This was revealed when the finished aircraft reached the VVS. The head engineer in charge of the acceptance trials was executed.

After which the emphasis was on accuracy. Hence whilst there will have been all sorts of media propaganda the actual test documents of 42 and onwards are very accurate........... their lives depended upon it!

[Boroda]

Hehe, GH, i really like to listen to stories and opinions from people "raped by evil comminist regime". C'mon, tell us again, how did it feel? Did you just relax and enjoy?

Funked, I really want to read the whole story.

It seems very strange to me. Usually engineers could speak their opinion about captured devices. Soviet system was pragmatic. Otherwise - why bother tryng to capture things like G-compensator from F-86, when everyone knew that the true Communist, armed with the theory of Marx-Lenin-Stalin, can easily withstand higher G-loads then an imperialist mercenary using bourgeous technoligy?

It seems to me that as usual you interpret the story without having the idea of the real situation. Things that happened here were very strange by Western standards. The same motivations and human conflicts, but dressed into absolutely different political and social clothes, totally alien to you.

BTW, didn't US pilots call that thing a "gum sight"? Plus MiGs recieved a radio warning device that detected Sabres range meter, a thing that can be called an "automatic 6-call"

This was revealed when the finished aircraft reached the VVS. The head engineer in charge of the acceptance trials was executed.


That could be the truth, but I doubt that he really was executed.  The main idea of Stalinism was responcibility. People in charge had enormous power, and enormous responcibility.

[GRUNHERZ]

Responsibility does not mean executing or jailing enginners who give bad reports or make errors in design.  Though I doubt youll see the difference.

Boroda its really hard to relax and enjoy the first few times, though I dont doubt it has become very easy and even pleasant for you over the years....