Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes

[Thrawn]

You guys kick butt.  Nice to see all the different sub-groups of this community, come together to work on thsi fantasic thread.  

[Karnak]

U.S.Army:
A-20G ... 5-42
B-17G ... 6-43*
B-26B ... 5-42
C-47A ... 12-41
P-38L ... 7-44
P-40B ... 1-41
P-40E ... 8-41
P-47D-11 ... 1-44?*
P-47D-25 ... 4-44
P-47D-30 ... 10-44
P-51B ... 12-43
P51D ... 5-44?*

U.S.Navy:
F4F-4 ... 41?
FM-2 ... 9-43
F4U-1 ... 10-42
F4U-1D ... 4-44
F4U-1C ... 4-45
F4U-4 ... 4-45
F6F-5 ... 7-44
SBD-5 ... 5-43?*
TBM-3 ... 1-42

British:
Boston MK III ... 5-41
Hurricane Mk I ... 12-37
Hurricane IIC ... 4-41
Hurricane IID ... 6-42
Lancaster III ... 3-42*
Mosquito Mk VI ... 7-43
Seafire IIC ... 10-42
Spitfire Mk IA ... 6-38
Spitfire V ... 4-41
Spitfire Mk IX ... 7-42
Spitfire Mk XIV ... 1-44!*
Tempest V ... 5-44
Typhoon ... 6-42*

Russian:
Il-2 Type 3 ... 10-42
La-5FN ... 3-43
La-7 ... 6-44
Yak-9T ... 1-43
Yak-9U ... 3-44

Italian:
C.202 ... 11-41
C.205 ... 1-43

Japanese:
A6M2 ... 7-40
A6M5b ... 3-44!*
D3A-1 ... ?-37!
Ki-61-I-KAIc ... 1-44!
Ki-67 ... 4-44!*
N1K2-J ... 11-44?*

German:
Ar 234B ... 12-44
Bf 109E-4 ... 5-40
Bf 109F-4 ... 6-41
Bf 109G-2 ... 5-42
Bf 109G-6 ... 10-42
Bf 109G-10 ... 3-44
Bf 110C-4b ... 7-40
Bf 110G-2 ... 5-42
Fw 190A-5 ... 3-43
Fw 190A-8 ... 2-44
Fw 190D-9 ... 9-44
Fw 190F-8 ... 3-44?
Ju 88A-4 ... 12-40
Me 262 ... 7-44
Ta 152H ... 2-45


Notes:

*B-17G ... 6-43; The B-17G did enter service in 1943, however the B-17G in AH has the stepped waist guns and improved tail turret of a 1944 B-17G.  This shouldn't have too much impact on gameplay though, being mainly limited to the greater range of movement in the tail turret.

*P-47D-11 ... 1-44?; This is based on my recollections of statements made by others in the "Give the P-47D-11 a paddle bladed prop" threads.  However, given that the AH P-47D-11 lacks the paddle bladded prop it is a decent approximation of a P-47D-5, which entered service in 3-43.

*P51D ... 5-44?; The P-51D entered production in 2-44, so it clearly did not enter service in 1-44.  I have looked and looked for a service entry date or a theatre arrival date for the P-51D, but have not (shockingly so given the aircraft's fame), been able to find even a hind.  I am guestimating a 3 month lag between entering production and entering service.

*SBD-5 ... 5-43?; The SBD-5 entered production in 2-43, so like the P-51D I am guestimating a 3 month lag from production to service.  I only found this information tonight (of course, I only looked for it tonight ) and have to admit to being somewhat disappointed in HTC about it.  The SBD-5 introduced the 1,200hp R-1820-60, which brought with it a noticable performance jump.  The SBD-2 and SBD-3 that fought the Battles of Coral Sea and Midway were powered by a 1,000hp engine and the SBD-2 lacked the dual rear gun.  At the same time as we have a late SBD, we have an early D3A.  The D3A1 is the aircraft that the Japanese used at Pearl Harbor, Coral Sea and Midway, but like the US with the SBD a better version was to be produced in greater quantity.  The D3A2 entered production in 8-42 and boosted the top speed of the D3A by 39mph.  As it is in AH, the US gets a over boosted aircraft and is in an artificial position of technical superiority, or greater superiority, than they should be.

*Lancaster III ... 3-42; The .50 calibre guns in the AH Lanc's tail mark it as a late war Lancaster, probably 1944.  However, that change, particularly in light of its paltry ammunition supply (I'd probably prefer four .303s with 4,000 rounds), shouldn't have too much of an impact on the game. Limiting early access to the Lanc based on the tail turret might be justified.

*Spitfire Mk XIV ... 1-44!; The Spitfire entered service with 610 Squadron on January 3rd, 1944.  3-44 is the date of the first kill (a Ju88), but it was operational and on patrols prior to that.

*Typhoon ... 6-42; The only significant change, in the context of AH, that I am aware of is the change to a bubble canopy in late 1943.  The performance of the Typhoon Mk Ib, so far as I can tell, remained relatively unchanged.  The major difference between a 1942 Typhoon and a 1944 Typhoon was in it's reliability, which is a non-issue in AH.

*A6M5b ... 3-44!; The only difference between an A6M5a, which entered service in 1-44, and an A6M5b is the switching of one of the 7.7mm machine guns in the cowling for a 12.7mm machine gun.  Substituting the A6M5b for A6M5b is reasonable.  The A6M5 entered service in 8-43, but was significantly less pretected than the A6M5b.  Nonetheless, this switch is probably still reasonable.

*Ki-67 ... 4-44!; The Ki-67 entered service with the IJA in 4-44.  The first IJN usage as a torpedo bomber is in 10-44.  Most Ki-67s were built in 1945.

*N1K2-J ... 11-44?; Production began in of the N1K2-J began in 6-44 and I have seen data that claiming that 60 were delivered in 1944.  My best source for N1K2 combat entry is 150 miles away from me right now.

[eskimo2]

bump

[Squire]

Are those dates in service or production? seems like they include both.

For the 109G-10 and 3-44, I have no source that gives it that early, 3-44 is the production date in the factory, unless somebody wants to give a source. All the ones I see give it as a post 6-44 service date, in this thread.

My own:

"Messerschmitt Bf 109" by Robert Grinsell:

"By April 1944 production of the Bf109G-6 and Bf109G-8 had given way to the Bf109G-10"

No in service date was given.

[Pei]

No. 3 and No. 486 Squadrons were declared operational at Tangmere with Hawker Tempest MkV (Series 1) aircraft in April 1944. The first operation sortie was flown by No. 3 Squadron on 23rd April.

The Tempest we have in AH is  MkV Series 2, the primary difference being the introduction of the Hispano MkV with the shorter barrel (and higher ROF). Series 2 Tempests began reaching squadrons in June 1944.

So the servie entry date should be either 4/44 or 6/44 depending on how accurate we want to be.

[GA]

Hey hey;)

Were were you guys when i need your help on my list!

http://www.332viking.com/docs/planedataupdate.xls

I wil go through you rpost and see if youy guys gott it right .

[Replicant]

The markings on the Typhoon in AH show it as a 1944 variant, although it's only the canopy, 4 blade prop and tougher tail that's different than a 1942 Typhoon.

The same goes for the Lancaster.  Lancaster III is the same as a Lancaster I but has Packard Merlins instead of Rolls Royce.  The .50 cal turrets were experimented with between 1942-1944 in either upper or tail location.  The variant we have is the 1944 tail turret, although everything else on the aircraft is the same as the 1942 Lancaster (although it's minus it's ventral gun which was only kept by one bomber group).

[Stegahorse]

Funked up list is inaccurate as to the P-47 Thunderbolt
An Indepth description of the beast is at

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p47.html

The first B dilevery of the B model was in 12/41 It had problems but the USAAF was impressed with it and ordered abvout 600 more. Republic realised that the Farmingdale facility could not meet the schedule. The Immediately started the Evansville In. facility. Farmingdale continued on the C models.  Evansville
facility started delivering in Sept 1942. A record for any startup and production facilty at the time. By then, the Republic engineers advanced the Thunderbolt to its D designation. By February 1943 both contracts for C and D models had been fulfilled. If you visit the Whirlpool site in Evansville,which is the old Republic factory, you would see that the planes were litterally rolled out the door, gassed up and sent to the delivery destination. C and D would be in service in March 1943. The contact through D-25 was fufilled in September 1943.
     What most people today cannot imagine was a standard practise for Republic. THEY UPGRADED EVERY FLYING Thunderbolt to the highest performance at the time. That is, They sent parts overseas for the mechanics to update every Thunderbolt everywhere. If a C-5 was flying, it had been upgrades to a D-25 as soon as the package of parts could be delivered. When the M came out, same thing happened. They made an improved supercharger or Turbocharger, they were sent to the front lines in upgrade kits. What did not change was Prat and Whitney engine unless it had to be replaced, the it would be with the lastest model.
Funked has the P-47M confused with the N . December, 1944 and 600~ is the proper  date and numbers for the M. NOW! IT WAS THE FASTEST PROP Driven in Europe. 470 mph at 27,000 feet. It weighed 10,432 empty, 13,275 normal load and 15,500 Maxed out.
The Heavy Thunderbolt, the N was the 20,700lb Behemouth of record. Of these , only 170 were produced . The shut-down of the Evansville plant put that area into shock. Those N type were delivered in April 1945 and went on to serve in UN role.
The P-47M was designed to be a fighter because Republic had pride in the plane and wanted it to be the best in the air. The 358th fighter group demanded them. And the 358th figured out the oil box problem. How fast??? A Lt. Rich dove one to a recorded speed of 586 mph. I talked to him. It flew as easy and steady as it would at 400 mph. The Lt winged for all the great T-bolt pilots in Europe. I asked him if he experianced compression in the t-bolt. He responded, "the Thunderbolt flew like a dream always. The only shudders he ever heard where when bullets or shells pecked at it". He went on to add that"you could not truly be a combat pilot if you did not get holes in your aircraft, regularly".
Check the site out for real, it is the best on names dates and places I've seen. Also on sight are comments like it has a higher aileron roll rate then any American or European fighter, Although it climbs poorly, nothing can stay with it in a dive.
Chech out the Thunderbolt Pilots Association
http://www.p47pilots.com/cfm_ContactUs.cfm
Ask them about there anecdotal flights and fights. When the same story is told time after time by person after person, the anecdote must be gospel!

[joeblogs]

Here's what I wonder about the P-47 in AH - all the models behave as if they have ADI (WEP), yet the initial models were built with the R2800-21, which to my knowledge did not have ADI.  Later planes had the R2800-59 which did have ADI.

That makes me wonder about what are the right introduction dates.  

Same problem with F4u-1 - the initial models did not have WEP until the R2800-8W was used...

-Blogs

Originally posted by funkedup
To follow up on your post Sancho, it looks like Kearby's Jugs were D-2's:  http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Seversky-Republic6.html

And they were the first Jugs to operate in PTO:  http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p47_15.html

[ 11-01-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

[joeblogs]

The DB601N was a high compression version of the basic engine, hence the higher octane requirement.  I believe this was orginally  designed as a racing engine.

As for the BMW801, I suspect the problem was with cylinder cooling.

-Blogs

Originally posted by HoHun
Hi Funked,

>A-2 and earlier used the BMW 801C which ran on B4 fuel (87 octane). A-3 used the 801D which required C3 fuel (100 octane). I think at this time it was the only front line fighter requiring C3 fuel.

Interesting point, I hadn't considered that.

It could be you're right with regard to fuel logistics, but the Fw 190A-3 at that time was not the only fighter to need C3 fuel - the Me 109E-7 and the Me 109F-2 with their DB601N engine also flew on 100 octane.

From what I've read, it was more an engine development problem - the BMW801 was a bit troublesome early on.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)