Author Topic: time to shoot runners again (Read 995 times)

bigsky · « **on:** June 24, 2003, 11:30:41 AM »

http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Hacks%20Target.db&command=viewone&op=t&id=18&rnd=182.43439367508733

LePaul · « **Reply #1 on:** June 24, 2003, 11:45:32 AM »

You know, the guy touchs on something I wondered if anyone would mention...the 507th support folks getting their butts kicked by a few local militia.

I was a support person when I was in the Guard. We didnt have the grunt stuff, as this guy points out.

It'll be interesting to see what the Army and others do. As he points out with the Marines...when their supply guys were harassed, they kicked ass.

The dust is still settling

blue1 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 24, 2003, 08:13:23 PM »

Fair point, Marines are infantrymen first and foremost that includes the women.

The US Marines the best soldiers the USA has and as good or better than any soldier in any army.

The army........well......the army is the army.

anonymous · « **Reply #3 on:** June 24, 2003, 08:54:04 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by blue1
Fair point, Marines are infantrymen first and foremost that includes the women.

The US Marines the best soldiers the USA has and as good or better than any soldier in any army.

The army........well......the army is the army.

that was kind of a silly thing to say dude. dont repeat that anywhere near ft benning. or within earshot of any of the dudes in the 7th light infantry i worked around long ago. they were army maintainance not combat infantry.

blue1 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 24, 2003, 09:46:55 PM »

It would only be silly if I didn't have a couple of Marines to back me up were I to wander into Fort Benning

I'd say this very topic has been the subject of occasional bar room 'discussion'

in the past.

anonymous · « **Reply #5 on:** June 24, 2003, 10:10:15 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by blue1
It would only be silly if I didn't have a couple of Marines to back me up were I to wander into Fort Benning

I'd say this very topic has been the subject of occasional bar room 'discussion' in the past.

ive worked with army infantry a little and marines alot. truth is if you carry a gun for a living in the American military you are going to be good at your job or you wouldnt have the job. it is true tho about difference between army and marines at a base level when you look at what happened to army maintainence in that ambush. i think logistic tail of marines is much smaller. so more of your rear area marines spent at least a couple of years in a combat unit packing a rifle. army has way bigger logistics and maintanence presence so better chance of having someone who has never been in combat unit in one of those jobs. marine boot camp is only real boot camp left in american military as well. level of pressure you have in marine boot should be duplicated in all army navy air force boot camps. i was shocked at how laid back navy boot camp was and that was years ago when alot of the pc dumb restrictions on boot camp instructors didnt exist.

Fishu · « **Reply #6 on:** June 24, 2003, 10:16:34 PM »

Since you peeps like the war so much.. how about US Army vs. US Marines civil war?

Cabby44 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 24, 2003, 10:37:25 PM »

^Been there done that. In the 1860's. Too tough and bloody a fight. Much easier and more fun to kick foreigner butt............

C.

jamusta · « **Reply #8 on:** June 24, 2003, 10:41:19 PM »

Well allow me to add my 2 cents but let me give you some background first. I was in the Marine Corps 4 1/2 years. I was active duty Army for 4 1/2 years. 1 year Army National Guard. and going on 4 years Army reserve. I hope this makes me sort of knowlegeable on the subject.

In the Marines I wasnt even support. I was in computer ops. We went to the field all the time to train. I asked why do we go so much cus I was in computer ops. Answer: You are a Marine Corps rifleman first, computer ops second. Made since to me. I wasnt as psyco as a ground pounder or a tanker but took my training seriously and loved mock combat.

Then on to the army. I left the Marine Corps to be a civilian during the downsizing after the Gulf war. Couldnt find a job. Couldnt get back into the Marines. So joined the Army. Let me tell you the hardest thing was going from Corporal in the Marines to Specialist in the army. Same pay grade different respect. Maine Corps corporal is the man. You lead train and make everything happen. Army specialist, well you are high paid private.

Support units in the army suck. They cannot defend themselves. No knowlege of what to do if under attack. There first response is to dawn there mask. Thats stupid cus while putting on your mask you are being shot. They have no idea how to take care of their weapons sand in their weapons cmon. Everyone know m16 is crap when dirty. Most cant even break down the m16.

I was stationed at Ft. Irwin Ca at the National Training Center. The things I could tell you but dont wanna take up anymore of your time. If asked I will. Let me say this. When ever the news came to NTC we were told we cannot comment on the readiness of the army. Whole army battalions have been destroyed in mock combat within 2 hours.

A.....int
R.....eady for the
M....arines
Y.....et

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #9 on:** June 24, 2003, 11:50:25 PM »

Do tell jamusta.

blue1 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 25, 2003, 12:01:03 AM »

The army is full of people earning college credits and and a bit of training and a few working their citizenship. The Marines is full of fighting soldiers and fighting soldiers earning their citizenship the hard way.

anonymous · « **Reply #11 on:** June 25, 2003, 12:28:27 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by blue1
The army is full of people earning college credits and and a bit of training and a few working their citizenship. The Marines is full of fighting soldiers and fighting soldiers earning their citizenship the hard way.

actually usmc is full of marines not soldiers.

lest anyone get the wrong impression i feel obligated to chime in and say that of the non sepcial operations army types ive worked with and watched in combat i never found myself thinking that they were inept. not saying the special operations guys of the army are inept at all made the distinction because people are talking about rear area and regular army and marines here. i still dont see the logic in saying that the american army doesnt have any shooters in the same league as the usmc because some army maintainence people got whooped when they probably shouldnt have. the only logical statement from the facts would be that the marine logistics guys took care of business and the army ones didnt. blue1 army combat units are full of fighting soldiers. if they werent fighting soldiers at heart theyd choose a more pleasant job within the army.

jamusta · « **Reply #12 on:** June 25, 2003, 12:46:10 AM »

The bigest difference I have seen between the army and the Marines is the respect and the pide the Marines have. That in turn shows in their tenacity on the battlefield. Marines preach quick obedience to orders, while an army soldier will question you. That in itself will get fellow soldies killed. Oh and never call a Marine a soldier..

anonymous · « **Reply #13 on:** June 25, 2003, 12:54:25 AM »

jamusta what did you do at ntc? did you enjoy it?

Drunky · « **Reply #14 on:** June 25, 2003, 12:55:11 AM »

I was in the USMC and had a fair amount of interaction with both the Navy and the Air Force.

I always wondered how they could call some of the military branches "Armed Forces" when their people never saw a weapon again after boot camp?

More like "Un-Armed Forces" to me.

I agree that it's a shame that people in the service (all of them) aren't trained for war. Yes, the Marine's code of "Every Marine is a Basic Rifleman" is significant but not enough IMHO.

I never trained where live rounds were going off over my head. Yea, I shot on the range but that was it. And a Battalion FX out on a mountain in Okinawa throwing grenades and shooting blanks every month doesn't quite cut it either.

[edit] Last point. A clean weapon was God while I was in...especially in the bush. I think it shows a lack of leadership that the 507th were allowed to have filthy rifles that jambed. That lack of discipline costs people their lives. Come on, how hard is it really to keep a m16 clean. It's not. Takes 10 mins, 2 or 3 times a day. [/edit]

Just my $.02.