Author Topic: so what has changed?  (Read 1687 times)

Offline lazs2

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so what has changed?
« on: June 26, 2003, 04:15:30 PM »
back in Aw dos I was brand new at this with some stick that didn't even have a hat...   Man did I get my butt shot up a lot... It seemed so unfair!  I mean, I was darn good at flight sims.   I could kill everyone in aces over the pacific even on the hard settings!

Guess I went about it all wrong but I jumped into every fight I could find and reveled in my first earned online kill... The more I got killed the more determined I was to learn how to kill..  seemed everyone was that way.  no shortage of agressive guys!

It never occured to me that I should look for ways to hide from fights.   That i should just fly with as many countrymen as possible and play it as safe as I could hoping that I might get a scrap or two that the good players missed.... maybe put enough lead into a wingless con to get the credit for the kill.... maybe a plane would take off from the vultched runway just as I was lined up on him.

so why are things different now?   why the "missuns" and timidity?   Is it because that other sim shut down and former hot shots don't want to be percieved as newbies?   Is it the "missun planner".??   is it the huge maps that encourage the late war no action planes?   The disparity of planes in the arena?

just curious.

heck.... there are some bright spots... even hubert... hubert upped in a furball so manyu times that I actually started to kinda admire the guy... It certainly couldn't have been easy to have me messing with him as he was learning (some have claimed that I am insensitive).   He took it well and he tried hard and he was getting better

lazs

Offline rshubert

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Except...
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2003, 04:26:16 PM »
I don't call that "furballing".  I call that "trying to push the base defenders back over their own field so we can up some jabos and PORK THE FUEL"  mwaaaahaaaaahaaaaa....

(edit)

and, of course, destroy their tool sheds...I hate toolsheds, and think they should all be blown to bits

Offline Rude

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so what has changed?
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2003, 04:26:46 PM »
I think the entire problem is due to lack of leadership...I feel, well, kinda lost and without hope for direction.

40dog....come save us from ourselves:)

Offline Gloves

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Re: so what has changed?
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2003, 04:28:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2


so what has changed?

...

just curious.

...

lazs


Well,


I did change my underwear.  :p

Offline bigUC

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so what has changed?
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2003, 04:46:32 PM »
Some of us are not included in the Air Tasking Order of the maw's...  Nothing to be envious about. ;)   Just shoot the little P's their flaming goon drops.  Somehow you know it hurts... :D
Kurt is winking at U!

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: so what has changed?
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2003, 05:01:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2




so why are things different now?...  Is it because that other sim shut down and former hot shots don't want to be percieved as newbies?  

 



What I've found out is that most of the limp wristed timid pilots in AH were already here long before that "other" sim went belly up and the exodus that soon followed.  So trying to blame that other sim is just as moronic as those that fly like timid little mice.

If you want to stop the timid flyers, why don't you try to take the time and teach some how to fly?  It beats whining about it.

Of course the best solution would to competely over-haul the existing training system with less reliance on community volunteers (i.e. the training program where you get $10 bucks to help) since that's shown not to be all that effective as a main training tool.  Rather use the volunteer training program as a supplement to an organize, formal training program like the ones in Air Warrior and Warbirds.  

As the song goes, Free your mind and your bellybutton will soon follow.


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Offline stegor

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so what has changed?
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2003, 05:30:48 PM »
This is a personal , but I'll try to explain whats for me.

I dont like only Furballs.

I like all whats in the flight simulation; I like to roll on the runway, I enjoy the feeling of upping, I like to cruise and to scout in search of the enmy.
I like the strategic aspect, so I  can fly waiting bombers to come to my base or  I like to defend my base and   go jaboing others.
Sometimes I fly to discover limits of my plane and management of engine (If only engine had more management).
So for me its not only a fact of "go and turn and fire and kill"
I enjoy a well conducted Noe mission; sometimes I like to think like a real pilot that one of my jobs is to come home safely and not to jump on any plane I see; maybe some others are giving a value to "virtual death" and not for a silly fear to be a dweeb,nor for the K/D , its only a mind status, a mission is complete only when you return home safely; I like to choose the moment to fight, when my enemy can play at my rules; I run, why not, when there is nothing other to do, and when I feel its right for me.
That is "my style" and I don't search others approvation.
There are hundreds of ways and reasons why I fly that way in that moment, and if someone dont like them, I'm sorry, but this is a free ride.
I meet many players that dont play the way I'd like.....but, what can I do.....

I think that when you feel bored from what other players are doing and you repeatedly whine about it, maybe its the time for you to change your way of flying; maybe trying something new, or maybe is   time for you to take a breath, and don't think its all others fault.

My 2 cents,with respect
:)

BTW someone just called me sissy so dont waste your time:D
« Last Edit: June 26, 2003, 05:34:41 PM by stegor »
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Offline NoBaddy

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so what has changed?
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2003, 06:56:27 PM »
I started playin AW in 1990 and played until about a year before it closed its doors. The behavior you are complaining about was around in AW when I started and all the way through. It was here when I started a couple of years ago and it is still here now. Absolutely nothing new about it.
NoBaddy (NB)

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Offline Reschke

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so what has changed?
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2003, 10:41:40 PM »
Heck I really felt like a noob last night. I got my 6 handed to me probably 15 times between Nomde, Frenchy and LftF00T while we all flew and fought between 203 and 194. I got no kills but I sure did learn a good bit about what I needed to work on to get back in the groove in this game.
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Offline Ack-Ack

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so what has changed?
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2003, 01:35:22 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Reschke
Heck I really felt like a noob last night. I got my 6 handed to me probably 15 times between Nomde, Frenchy and LftF00T while we all flew and fought between 203 and 194. I got no kills but I sure did learn a good bit about what I needed to work on to get back in the groove in this game.



When you see any of the 56th flying together, you know you're in for a long night but get the alone and they're still a pain in the ass.


Ack-Ack
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Offline BUG_EAF322

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so what has changed?
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2003, 02:09:05 AM »
Everything changed except u.
:)

Offline Tumor

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so what has changed?
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2003, 04:23:24 AM »
Ok this is getting old.  I'm gonna do something I never thought possible, it's almost embarrasing!

RUDE!!... WHERE'S YOUR WHINE OF THE WEEK THREAD???

The repetitive nature of this subject and it's author truly deserve recognition.
"Dogfighting is useless"  :Erich Hartmann

Offline Gremlin

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so what has changed?
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2003, 07:53:13 AM »
How ever a guy enjoys AH is his/her business. If you wanna fly around a friendly base with a zillion other guys hoping for the odd kill thats what u pay your 15 bucks for.

Personally, that would bore be to tears.  I much prefer to go find my own fight.  I love to go go to an airfield where lots of cons are upping and have good fight there.  As a general rule, if the friendly bar is bigger than the enemy one, i dont wanna know.

Occassionally i come across a 1v1 and just sit above it and watch.  Unless the firendly is at a severe disadvantage from the start.  Sometimes a friendly starting with an advantage blows it and then cries cause I didnt help him.  You started the fight buddy:)  He'd still be crying if I took *his* kill away.

Sometimes you see 20 or 30 friendlies milling around a friendly airfield.  I often think maybe they're chatting, telling jokes, beechin?  I dunno what they're doin, but they aint rackin up kills thats fer sure.

Still its good that the 'flocking' mentality ias not just confined to bish.  Otherwise life would be very dull for a cherrypickin dweeb like me:D

Offline lazs2

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so what has changed?
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2003, 09:14:49 AM »
easy now.... this wasn't meant to be a flame of an entire sim (former sim) community..  I was just throwing out some possible reasons... come up with your own... but why all of a sudden are more guys avoiding anything that resembles combat?

It can't be that the "strat" is so facinating and complex or that the "winning the war" is so rewarding.... heck.. the strat is way less complex than checkers... winning the war lets you reset the map and start all over.

I agree with gremlin... it's your bucks but.... milling around doing nothing or flying around at 25K with maybe 1 engagement per hour...  Maybe we have a lot of new guys whose dr said to stay away from excietmen?

I think it is a combination with fields too far apart as one of the main causes..

hubert said   "I don't call that "furballing". I call that "trying to push the base defenders back over their own field so we can up some jabos and PORK THE FUEL" mwaaaahaaaaahaaaaa.... "

ya know... that is fine... what was happening there was what I want... it was in effect close fields... a cv.   Hubert thought that he was beating us/me back so that we wouldn't kill his cv and so that he could capture/pork our base... we simply were enjoying the furball that resulted..  

see.... both strat sissies and noble furballers were co-existing.  Why? closer fields.... furballers don't care if the field falls if there is another one to fight from... strat guys think that the furballers are participating.

everyone is happy (so long as nobody sinks the cv that is)... and that is the crux of the matter... the only fields that this symbiotic relationship works at are ..... carriers... the other fields are the same ol   "long flight to nowhere"  "hide under your bunk untill you have a real steamroller worth of attack force to kill toolsheds"  "fly at 25k and hope to find someone who is AFK and then run like hell"

lazs
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Offline Charon

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so what has changed?
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2003, 09:21:31 AM »
Quote
Guess I went about it all wrong but I jumped into every fight I could find and reveled in my first earned online kill... The more I got killed the more determined I was to learn how to kill.. seemed everyone was that way. no shortage of agressive guys!


LOL Lazs. It took me about a year to get a positive k/d when I started AW in 1993. I could do pretty well in 1v1 but just didn't have my SA down. It was pretty harsh but I was determined not to suck, eventually :) I still get in too many fights I know I should avoid, but at least I can win a few more of them today.

A2A was about all SVGA AW was about. Taking the handful of capturable central bases was a mechanism to get closer, more intense furballs. There were numerous tutorials, and virtually none focused on A2G. It was all, how to fight in the FW, etc. (I believe Twist authored many, and then there were the transcripts from various Shaw online chats). I still have a folder of printouts that I downloaded and studied to improve my skills. I even joined Genie just to get access to some older files, since I already played cheaper on Delphi/Cris net. Bought Shaw, etc.

I noticed the change when Gamestorm came on the scene. I flew the first "Bigweek" mission with about three CTDs, then one or two beta flights in the FR ma, then took a year off. When I came back something really odd had happened.

The small neutral/center maps (that brought the action together)were gone, replaced by the Big Pork Pac map. A shocker was my first sortie, where I followed a p-51 across two sectors, low on his 6 by about 2K, waiting for him to engage. In the old AW this would have been a foregone conclusion, but not here. He eventually was killed by ack trying to divebomb (milkrun) a strategically useless, undefended base in a completely dead sector. It was so out of place, I e-mailed a friend and former AW player (yyrkoon) who also hadn't made the move about it.

I soon noticed AW had evolved to big groups of Az, Bz and Cz far away from each other on the big map, taking bases with 5+ v 1 odds. The few defenders that wanted a fight quickly got tired of the gangbang, and flying two extra sectors because of porked fuel. I think the smaller maps, with limited capturable targets that forced people to fight in the same area, was what had changed in the game followed by human nature. And to be fair, with numbers in the hundreds instead of the tens, the central model was less viable from a technology standpoint.

This is not an easy game in which to become adequately successful where ACM is concerned. There is three-dimensional battle space, physics, required knowledge (aircraft performance, tactics, weapons, bullet drop, deflection, etc.), SA... did i mention SA?  A large map makes it easier to avoid having to learn ACM, allowing people to "succeed" in a gameplay involving overwhelming numbers and "toolsheds." If you're on the short end of the stick, then go somewhere else and be the ganger. It's easy enough, just look for the big green bar with the small red bar, I'm sure you'll see one.

For those of us who came of age on AW DOS, though, it's a dramatically different reality. We have experienced our version of fun, which involves fighting other people who actually want to fight in an A2A environment. Not necessarily 1v1 as in a dueling arena, but just a willingness to roll the dice and say what the hell instead of, "What if I lose!" For some like myself, it's not even about strat vs furball. If the strat was more complex (actual strat vs. jabo steamroller) it might actually be interesting. Hell, I even gooned and bombed in the AW DOS days when the goal was furball, because the strat helped facilitate that goal.

I can thank the big pork in AW for one thing --  it brought me here after 8 years of loyalty even before EA pulled the plug. By the same token, I hope the situation in AH doesn't get as bad as it got in AW, or else I'll be looking elsewhere once again.

Charon
« Last Edit: June 27, 2003, 09:25:20 AM by Charon »