This just makes me angry!

[LoneStarBuckeye]

Originally posted by Mini D
This thread was started under the premise that people living in a community should not be allowed to participate in that community.  You guys really don't undestand just what it is you are attacking on this particular issue.

The subject of migrant workers and illegal alliens is surely a topic for debate, but how we treat the children of those allowed to exist in this country should not be.  "We'll let you stay, but you'll get nothing else from us" should not be a political stance.

To think it should be clearly associates you with political stances from the past.  Deny the association all you want... the platform is the same.

MiniD

No.  This thread was started under the premise that children of illegal aliens should not be considered "resident students" under Washington law.  Also, by hypothesis, those children have already had a free secondary education, which surely constitutes "participating in the community" and "getting something from us."  There is no reasonable basis for asserting that someone who wants to draw some line between benefits available to children of U.S. citizens and those available to children of illegal aliens is either a "biggot" or a "Nazi."  In fact, I am hard-pressed to identify any link between that stance and Naziism.  

Moreover, it's not that we don't understand our position on this issue, it's that we (at least I) don't understand yours, because you never clearly stated it.  Instead, you opted for general, obfuscatory derision and slander, both of which are much easier to sling than to piece together coherent arguments.  Of course, you get the side benefit that it is much harder to refute being called "biggot" or "Nazi" than it is to counter a real argument.  

Well, done.  Jesse would be proud.

[Mini D]

Of course it's a topic for debate. I believe that's why it was probably posted in the first place Mini.

Take a moment and read the title of this post.  Then take another moment and reread Ripsnort's initial post.

Do you REALLY believe this was posted for discussion?  I mean really?

Ripsnort told them where to go.... and you feel this was intended to be a discussion?

Once again... you're ignorance to this is lumping you in.  The post was critising the bill (passed by the voters) and telling the people that it applied to to get the hell out of the country.  And this was intended to be a topic for debate?

Yah.  Right.

MiniD

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Mini D
This thread was started under the premise that people living in a community should not be allowed to participate in that community

MiniD

HUH!?  Quit spiking yer coffee, this thread originated as "be legal about citizenship, if you want to use our tax payers dollars for your family"

Go ahead and twist it to your agenda as you see fit though.

[Mini D]

Twist it to my agenda?  What the hell?

I didn't start this stupid thread drippy.  You did.  I have no agenda in regards to immigrants other than to acknowledge if a community is willing to accept them into it... individuals still wanting to kick them out are biggots.

I'm sorry your attempt to sound more American highlights exactly what is wrong with many Americans these days.

You are not more patriotic rip.   I feel pity for you for even feeling the need to start this thread at all.

MiniD

[TracerX]

The subject of migrant workers and illegal alliens is surely a topic for debate, but how we treat the children of those allowed to exist in this country should not be. "We'll let you stay, but you'll get nothing else from us" should not be a political stance.

The political stance is "We'll let you stay, and durring your stay, if you can become legalized, then you can stay for good."  There are plenty of people who come here on working Visa's who do not lift a finger to become naturalized.  My work has sponsored people for citizenship before, but there are not many requests.  Then their Visa runs out and they are forced to either go back or become Illegal ailiens.  Don't blame the Government for someones failure to take advantage of the situation they have been given.  If they came here without at least a working vesa, they should not expect any more than what they get away with.

[Scootter]

Originally posted by Mini D
This is funny.  I mean really funny.

Do any of you even have an idea about American history?  I mean really.  Do you ever actually think about it when starting stupid bigotted threads like this? I mean really?  This all boils down to "we were here first dammit!"

There's a reason we have "undocumented alien families" in the U.S.  I don't think most of you realize what it is.

MiniD

Mini Dip,

This is really funny, what an argument

American history also has slavery and destruction of the Native Americans. That doesn’t make it right or a model to follow now.

 I don't recall my great grandfather getting a Free College education when he got here from Germany and he (they) played by the rules.

So you see nothing wrong with someone breaking the law and not playing within the rules getting all the advantages of a some one who did (wonder how that makes Documented Aliens feel).

I some times wonder if you even read the drivel you write on this forum. If you really believe in what you say ( and I don't think you do) you are beyond help or hope, just live in your little world where the sky is purple and the grass is blue.

When lawbreakers are rewarded and given the same privileges as lawful citizens it only encourages more, or do you think we should have no INS and just open the boarders to everyone?

Really answer this question "Should we have an INS"?

Why or way not

Waiting


By the way I employ many Undocumented Aliens in the construction industry and have first hand experience that they pay no taxes and send most of there wages home. Not that this is any problem with me as they earned it and can do as they please. Yes they pay a sales tax on things they buy and gas but this is not the same as income taxes, (by the way you need a SS number to pay income taxes and they have none) This is a good and hard working group that I go out of my way to help and have even provided toys and food to at Christmas. But I don't think they should be given privileges over legal citizens. Some only want to work here and save for there families back home, and some will be or are in the process of becoming legal. By the way they have drivers licenses and library cards and rent apartments and buy cars so they are not living under ground.

I have a lot of respect for these folks and there family and work attitude they can teach us a thing or two but many admit that they will not become Americans as they see no need.

[GrimCO]

Originally posted by Mini D
Take a moment and read the title of this post.  Then take another moment and reread Ripsnort's initial post.

Do you REALLY believe this was posted for discussion?  I mean really?

Ripsnort told them where to go.... and you feel this was intended to be a discussion?

Once again... you're ignorance to this is lumping you in.  The post was critising the bill (passed by the voters) and telling the people that it applied to to get the hell out of the country.  And this was intended to be a topic for debate?

Yah.  Right.

MiniD

This just makes me angry was the title...  I suppose you think being angry about a subject immediately makes you a nazi bigot also. We should all be happy and harmonious.

I'm sure Ripsnort posted this thread with absolutely no idea that it would be discussed and commented on  And you chose to discuss and debate it. Whatever for? That was never it's intention.

Keep diggin the hole. You'll eventually fall in.

[LoneStarBuckeye]

Originally posted by Mini D
I have no agenda in regards to immigrants other than to acknowledge if a community is willing to accept them into it... individuals still wanting to kick them out are biggots.
MiniD

A.  Why is someone who wants to remove illegal aliens--who, for whatever reason, have managed to live and work in this country--a bigot?
B.  How is not assigning "resident student" status equivalent to "kicking them out"?

[TracerX]

Very intelligent posts LoneStar.  I am not debating the "Bigoted Nazi" issue, but I enjoy reading your thoughtful retorts.

[Mini D]

The irony of someone using the term "illegal" to defend someone trying to say "I don't care what the law says..."

And scooter... I know American history has things like slavery in it.  What you seem to fail to realize is how situations like this directly correlate to it.  People brought in to do the work that nobody else would do for the price being offered... and how we treated them once they were here.

I'm not inviting illegal immigrants into the country.  I am saying that the way we treat the people that are in this country, working, and doing jobs that very few already here wanted to do directly reflects on the country itself.  The more people want to treat them like slaves, the less I am for it.  The more people want to treat them like humans.. the more I am for it.

I'm sorry that entitling the children of those allowed to be employed in a state to upper education rubs some people the wrong way.  The problem is not the children looking for the education or betterment... it is the society that feels it is alright to have second class citizens that aren't really entitled to the things that others are just because we need someone to pick apples.

MiniD

[ra]

What you seem to fail to realize is how situations like this directly correlate to it. People brought in to do the work that nobody else would do for the price being offered...

There are thousands of qualified people around the world who would be glad to come here and do your job for 1/3 the pay.  Should we turn our backs and let them sneak in?  And give their kids resident status when they go to college?

[Montezuma]

Originally posted by Sabre
This is one of the big reasons California's budget deficit for this coming fiscal year is larger then the other 49 state's put together.  CA has made just about every social program and entitlement (a insidious phrase) program on the books available to illegal aliens.

Immigration and citizenship are exclusively under the jurisdiciton of the federal government.  CA voter's attempts to deprive illegals of public schooling and other benefits have all met with defeat in the courts.

People don't come here to go on welfare, they come here to work.  Until laws are enforced against *employers* of illegals, this problem is going to get worse.   That will not happen soon though, since many business interests are happy with the current situation.

[funkedup]

Again I say to MiniPeePee and Drip, GET A MOTEL ROOM!

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by funkedup
Again I say to MiniPeePee and Drip, GET A MOTEL ROOM!

Yeah, he *does* have quite an obsession with me, you were right in that email you sent me   Me thinks Creamo and Pee Pee vacation together

[Mini D]

My how this is just bringing out all the ugliness in people.

Of all the illegal immigrants in this country... I wonder why none of them have applied for my job?

Maybe its that my company adheres to immigration employment rules.  They cannot afford it any other way.

Then there's the company's that can't afford not to hire immigrants.  The jobs that would not be filled if it weren't for immigrants.  Its not that someone is taking an American job... its that most Americans feel they are above such work, and its OK to have more apropriate people fill the positions.

The same people only seem to get pissed when those people forget that they are only necessary to fill the **** job role... and had dammed well better stay away from allowing even their children to aspire to anything higher.

MiniD