Flaps again

[F4UDOA]

Three strange things in AH.

1. P-47 flaps can be deployed at high speeds up to 250MPH. I can get three notches at 200MPH IAS. The manual says that you can't use them at all above 195MPH IAS.

2. The F6F-5 had two stage flaps. Full up and full down. They could retract with the blowup feature in 5 stages but only by being blown up slowly. In AH they are pilot controlled 5 stage flaps like a F4U.

3. The blow up feature which could be turned on and off in the F6F/F4U doesn't work quite right either. They blow up fine but should redeploy as soon as the airspeed drops down low enough unless the flap handle is retracted.

I am King of the essoteric.

[joeblogs]

Always wondered why the F6 is modeled with flaps it never had.  It's not like there is any technical uncertainty about this.

In Air warrior they modeled it with DIVE BRAKES!  I had Pensacola check with some living F6f drivers to confirm this was absurd...

Something else that bothers me is that all the US heavy iron is modeled with ADI when, according to the records, water injection came late to a number of them.

-Blogs

Originally posted by F4UDOA
Three strange things in AH.

1. P-47 flaps can be deployed at high speeds up to 250MPH. I can get three notches at 200MPH IAS. The manual says that you can't use them at all above 195MPH IAS.

2. The F6F-5 had two stage flaps. Full up and full down. They could retract with the blowup feature in 5 stages but only by being blown up slowly. In AH they are pilot controlled 5 stage flaps like a F4U.

3. The blow up feature which could be turned on and off in the F6F/F4U doesn't work quite right either. They blow up fine but should redeploy as soon as the airspeed drops down low enough unless the flap handle is retracted.

I am King of the essoteric.

[F4UDOA]

JoeB,

Do you know what Navy and AAF used for anti-detonant? Was it water alcohal mix or was there any addition chemical additive?

The other thing about the way WEP is modeled is the weird disparity in time WEP is alloted.

For instance the 109 has it for seemingly the entire fuel load if desired but the P-47 has a 5 min limit. I assume there is some documentation supporting the duration of the 109 ADI but I have never seen it.

Also allied A/C carried different amounts. The P-47 carried almost 30 gallons. The F4U-1D carried enough for 8.5 minutes, F6F-5 carried 10 minutes and the F4U-4 carried 13 minutes I believe.

If we had the SFC's right most of that would not matter. I would personally luv to see max continous be the norm in the MA.

But of course you know that already JoeB  

[ccvi]

Originally posted by F4UDOA
1. P-47 flaps can be deployed at high speeds up to 250MPH. I can get three notches at 200MPH IAS. The manual says that you can't use them at all above 195MPH IAS.

AH manual or P47 manual?

[Halo]

Good thread.  I haven't the foggiest which is correct, but fine tuning like this from people who know makes the game better than ever.  

The flaps I use most are manual -- my arms just before the parachute opens.

[hazed-]

Originally posted by F4UDOA
JoeB,

Do you know what Navy and AAF used for anti-detonant? Was it water alcohal mix or was there any addition chemical additive?

The other thing about the way WEP is modeled is the weird disparity in time WEP is alloted.

For instance the 109 has it for seemingly the entire fuel load if desired but the P-47 has a 5 min limit. I assume there is some documentation supporting the duration of the 109 ADI but I have never seen it.

Also allied A/C carried different amounts. The P-47 carried almost 30 gallons. The F4U-1D carried enough for 8.5 minutes, F6F-5 carried 10 minutes and the F4U-4 carried 13 minutes I believe.

If we had the SFC's right most of that would not matter. I would personally luv to see max continous be the norm in the MA.

But of course you know that already JoeB  

I sked the question about wep times but i was told i was being selfish and trying to gain some sort of advantage oveer other planes in the game!! the fact that HT assumed i only fly LW planes made him conclude (in error) i only wanted LW planes to be better so i could get easy kills.

we did the tests F4UDOA

190'a 10 mins wep 20 mins to cool
109s 10 mins wep 10 mins to cool
P47s 5 mins wep 10 mins to cool
P51s 5 mins wep 10 mins to cool
SPitfire 5 mins wep 15 mins to cool
hurricane 5 mins wep 15 mins to cool
La7 5 mins wep 10 mins to cool

if you can work out why they are like this id like to know what it is.
The pilots manuals APPARENTLY were used to det the wep times.A sort of limit based on the recommended running times in the pilots manuals.The problem isnt the so much the wep durations its more the cooling rates.Why do RAF planes take 5 minutes longer to cool down?
LW planes are way ahead in terms of durations for sustained water injection or nitro fuels.The Ta152 for instance makes the paultry 8.5 minutes of the F4U look like an afterthought.The ta152 actually carried 85 litres of GM1 or 70 litres of methano-water MW50.thats a lot longer than 10 minutes worth.

from 'Luftwaffe fighter force:A view from the cockpit' et al Adolf Galland ISBN 1-85367-327-7.....

'To prevent loss of power at high altitudes the special GM1 fluid can be used as additional fuel.Nitrous oxide is fed into the engine by the GM1 apparatus.Use is possible in the bf109 and fw190 over 25,000feet for about 17 minutes, up to 50 minutes with the Me410.An increase in speed of about 40-70 km/hour is obtained at about 28,000 feet.
  Another method of raising engine performance is by water-methanol injection.This helps to cool the engine and brings about an increased performance by greater manifold pressure.Methanol has a favourable influence on anti-knock properties.The increase in power is greatest at low altitudes.It has an increase of about 30 km/hour at all altitudes up to full boost altitude(where the engine had its best performance)Used in periods of 2-20 minutes.'

basically if we had a proper wep system the LW planes would have much longer than their allied counterparts.I think this may have been why HTC decided to give LW planes 2x the wep duration but as they made it take twice as long to cool down it rather kills the whole point of having double the wep.I gave up asking as apparently i was way out of line to even suggest the wep is set up wrong.I think the line was 'you are argueing about a reality that doesnt exist' or something like that. yeah you tell me! i dont know what it means either

basically as all engines wear out over their lifetime and this takes hundreds of sorties modeling it in a game where you can respawn anytime is impossible so developers have to work out a system they feel is representive.In WW2 a pilot could theoretically run his engine until it finally blew up and this was a lot longer than 5 or 10 mins. I think HTC decided that it should be limited and i guess they used the recomended times in pilots manuals for wep speed?.

strange thing is the LA7 in its pilot manuals says it could only be run on full wep for 2 minutes and it had no methanol or nitrous what gives?

For me the wep system is where AH falls a bit short on realism.Id better forget all about it again...

[joeblogs]

To my knowledge US production AC always used water/alcohol for ADI.

I believe 109f on did have a fair amount of WEP time, but it would pretty much empty the gas tanks too.  I'll have to check some documents on that.

-blogs

Originally posted by F4UDOA
JoeB,

Do you know what Navy and AAF used for anti-detonant? Was it water alcohal mix or was there any addition chemical additive?

The other thing about the way WEP is modeled is the weird disparity in time WEP is alloted.

For instance the 109 has it for seemingly the entire fuel load if desired but the P-47 has a 5 min limit. I assume there is some documentation supporting the duration of the 109 ADI but I have never seen it.

Also allied A/C carried different amounts. The P-47 carried almost 30 gallons. The F4U-1D carried enough for 8.5 minutes, F6F-5 carried 10 minutes and the F4U-4 carried 13 minutes I believe.

If we had the SFC's right most of that would not matter. I would personally luv to see max continous be the norm in the MA.

But of course you know that already JoeB  

[F4UDOA]

Heya Hazed,

85 litre is only 19 gallons. The F4U-1D carried 15 gallons of ADI. Hardly a paltry comparison. In fact the F6F carried 20 gallons of ADI and the F4U-4 carried 20.5 gallons. I certainly don't see why the TA-152 has more than double the WEP time of these A/C.

And the king of ADI would be the P-47D25 or later at a whopping 41.5 gallons!!!

I would say that the TA-152 and others have gotten the benifit of the doubt as to the duration of WEP without overheating but I certainly would not say that their WEP time has been cheated based on the average volume of fluid they carry.

I do think the Pratt & Whitney models in AH are a little slighted based on the ability of these engines to run at overboost for extended periods without failure above and beyond most any other WW2 aircraft engine.