Author Topic: Ok, (picks up Mookies torch). Q&A time.  (Read 808 times)

Offline Apeboy

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Ok, (picks up Mookies torch). Q&A time.
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 1999, 09:55:00 AM »
Now we're getting somewhere.

Spicy or regular mustard?  


Cya up there,
Apeboy

Offline Bombjack

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Ok, (picks up Mookies torch). Q&A time.
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 1999, 10:38:00 AM »
Yeah eagl, 'fess up, you hate bombers don't you?  

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-bmjk-
617 Squadron RAF

Offline Sascha JG 77

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Ok, (picks up Mookies torch). Q&A time.
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 1999, 11:02:00 AM »
 
Quote
The first beta will contain
                         P51d
                         109g10
                         spit9
                         b17g

No 190? Oh boy..tough times for the LW-junkies.  

Sascha

Offline eagl

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Ok, (picks up Mookies torch). Q&A time.
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 1999, 11:10:00 AM »
Yea, I harbor a secret grudge that I'm forced to actually act like a bomber pilot in real life, when everyone knows 1) The F-15 is really a fighter, and 2) Bombers are huge, slow, and regardless of their actual name they're pronounced "targets".

Gimme a break indian    I've spent hundreds of hours flying WB bombers, and I've spent hundreds of hours flying the modern day equivalent of the jabo fighter.  Except that the F-15E also does the level precision bombing as well as dive bombing.  Those experiences, both virtual and RL, lead me to the conclusion that bombing in some games is rather easy.  In WB, I find the level bombing is probably too easy, because anyone can place a single bomb within a few feet of pinpoint targets.  There is almost no skill required.  Just have the bombing line centered and green, remember to open the bomb bay doors (the most difficult thing about WB level bombing IMHO is opening the doors), make sure the plane is on auto-level and not accelerating too much, and push the button when the crosshairs go over the target.  None of those steps take much skill, it's mere checklist processing.

I'm 100% behind pyro's comments that where bombers are concerned, a player who follows the procedures and has mastered the required skill set should be able to achieve success, but I add on the idea that 100% success should not be guaranteed any more than a fighter should be guaranteed to get 100% rounds hits on another plane just because he is in range, in plane, and pulling lead.  The more skilled a pilot is, the better chance of success he should have.  If that required paying attention to the winds during climbout (that means no putting plane on autopilot for the climb and going to eat dinner AFK) and actually doing some research about your target prior to launching to get target altitude, then so be it.  If HTC can come up with some other skill required, that would be great too.  I just think it would be a shame if AH shared the same laser rangefinding precison bombsight that WB has, because once you understand how the WB bombsight works, you're just about guaranteed 100% hits.
 
Oh yea, almost forgot.  WRT OTTO...  At the height of my WB career, I maintained over 6 K/D with 13% gunnery, lately I'm around 2-3 K/D with 10%.  The last bomber TOD I flew, otto maintained almost 15% gunnery all by himself.  Hmmm.  The average gunnery of all WB players hovers between 6 and 8%.  Otto therefore gets up to double the gunnery percentage of the average WB player.  Don't open up that particular can of worms, especially considering the popularity of ackstars in certain other games.  There are almost no facts or historical basis to support OTTO's outstanding accuracy except for the nebulous arguments about GAMEPLAY.  The game creators and producers hold the last word on gameplay issues, so any discussion about otto on our parts is merely pissing into the wind.  The producers have the big picture about that, so while we players can make suggestions, gripe, praise, or whatever, it's up to the producer to make those decisions.


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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!

[This message has been edited by eagl (edited 09-13-1999).]
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Mookie

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Ok, (picks up Mookies torch). Q&A time.
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 1999, 11:21:00 AM »
HeHe..Superfly...

You are not only a gentleman...you are a gentleman with good taste...Your post made me so hungry I bolted for the galley and sliced the breast off a roasted lemon grass chicken the wife whipped up last nite...In lieu of hot pepper cheese, I crushed a couple of hot peppers on some provalone cheese and dolloped on a little Dijon mustard ...Washing it down right now with an ice cold coke.

Posts like this will have people checking in everyday to see what's new...and I for one really appreciate it...

I'm flattered that you took the time to post Soup...Thanks

Offline Superfly

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Ok, (picks up Mookies torch). Q&A time.
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 1999, 01:25:00 PM »
Apeboy, sorry to disappoint you, but I like real Mayo on my sandwiches.  I only put (regular) mustard on hotdogs.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I'm having a side of potato salad.  Mookie, I think your sandwich sounds tastier than mine.  You can't beat home cookin.  

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John "SUPERFLY" Guytan - Art Director
HiTech Creations
"The Artist Formerly Known As MONKEY"


John "Superfly" Guytan
Art Director
HiTech Creations, Inc.

"My brain just totally farted" - Hitech, during a company meeting

Offline indian

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Ok, (picks up Mookies torch). Q&A time.
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 1999, 01:40:00 PM »
eagl sorry about the way it sounds. Without adding waether to the game bombs are going to drop like they are on a tightrope. no wind no drift maybe they can add a randomly selected dud or a bad fuse that blows in the air and take out what ever is near it. I would not mind weather being added it all add to game play. What you are asking for would require detailed maps with accurate coordinates to each object, altitude heading and etc.etc.. You as a bomber pilot in WB should know its not easy getting to target as is, I personally cant master the bomber yet. As for the F15 all but the E model were fighter the E is a very effective bomber although they all can bomb very well, I personally have seen a F15D with 18 500lb bombs attached to its wings.

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Tommy (INDIAN) Toon

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Offline popeye

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Ok, (picks up Mookies torch). Q&A time.
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 1999, 01:55:00 PM »
Definitely with Eagl on this one.  

Success in a WB fighter requires something like fighter pilot skills:  ACM, E management, and gunnery.  Success in a WB bomber requires GAME skills, rather than bomber pilot skills.

Bomber missions should require skills like mission planning,  navigation, and aircraft systems management.  Let bomber pilots have the Laser Norden, just make it more realistically difficult to get the bombs over the target.

popeye
KONG

Where is Major Kong?!?

Offline Firefox

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Ok, (picks up Mookies torch). Q&A time.
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 1999, 03:31:00 PM »
Indian Sayeth
As for the F15 all but the E model were fighter the E is a very effective bomber although they all can bomb                        very well, I personally have seen a F15D with 18 500lb bombs attached to its wings.

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Um Indian,
I think you missed what eagl does for a living, Im pretty sure he knows that.  Thats why his Callsign Eagl.  HE FLIES them for a living, he flies the F-15E in the Air Force.  Thats why I love talking to sean, when he speaks he knows from whence he is talking about.  

As for bombers.  Ditto what eagle says  .



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Rick "Firefox" Scott


Samart

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Ok, (picks up Mookies torch). Q&A time.
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 1999, 03:58:00 PM »
OK Fighter PUKES  heheheeheheheh  I just love saying that and hiding behind my otto......anyway.....

I would like to see these people that say Bomber pilots require GAME SKILLS.  Yea right!!!!!  Have you ever tried to fly in FORMATION (not this loose stuff....Im talking D 0.5) or have you ever tried to fly formation with 3 echelons?????  If you have, you'd KNOW that it has nothing to do with GAME skills.  Yea I agree anyone can come up in a bomber and fly.....but people can grab a fighter too and get very luckey also.  
But to grab a bomber and use it like a TOOL for your uses.....that is a different story.

If you fighter jocks think that this is easy.....you just give me your name and a time that you would like to fly REAL formation on "that other game" and we'll see how good ya are

HEEEEEHHHH  GAME SKILLS  heheeheheh      

Sam


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450th BG(H)
"The Cottontails"

Offline Gazoo

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Ok, (picks up Mookies torch). Q&A time.
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 1999, 04:59:00 PM »
Ill jump into this one.

The big problem I have with bombers (and I do like to fly em) is that we are replacing an entire crew with one man.  (everyone knows this)

Currently, you are required to be a pilot.  You can set an autopilot and jump to gunner or bombadier.  But essentially you must be a pilot.

I like gunning!  Unfortunately, I could not get a ride as a gunner often enough, so I quit.  Also WB's disconnecting gunner bug made me stop too.

But what if we allowed the buffer to sign on as a gunner? and have an autopilot fly a prenavigated route?  Make the navigation realistic too.  Have the "user" plot the course for the autopilot.  Screw up the nav and you miss, but you do get to fly the flight as gunner and bombadier.

The only job I can see not being done by otto would be the bombadier.  as bombing is part of the whole strat.


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Gazoo
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Offline fats

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Ok, (picks up Mookies torch). Q&A time.
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 1999, 05:32:00 PM »
--- HiTech: ---
Simple fact that one or 2 plane buf raids never happend in real life but in the arena we must allow for this event
--- End ---

Go check your history books. Just for laughs check out the number of planes in the PLeLvs in Finnish air force, you'll be surprised to see that a whole squadron might be 4 Ju 88s strong, and not all of them went out on every mission.


//fats

Offline Downtown

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Ok, (picks up Mookies torch). Q&A time.
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 1999, 10:26:00 PM »
But I want big Buff Raids.

I want us to have a reason for 10, or 15, or 20 of us to get together, and fly formation, and navigate to the target.

I would go for less accurate bombs for less hard targets.

WWII Bombing was Saturation Bombing.

Open the Bombay, and drop em all, and kick out any that stuck.

(And they missed all the time with the saturation bombing too.)

Figure out a way to get the majority, or even a third of the People in the arena in the Buffs.

I have to go with Eagl, less accurate bombs.
Less hard targets, saturation type bombing.

(How about Blast Effect?)  should have an effect on surface targets.

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"I could feel the 20MM Cannon impacting behind me so I made myself small behind the pilot armor" Charlie Bond AVG

Chris Kelly

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Ok, (picks up Mookies torch). Q&A time.
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 1999, 07:13:00 AM »
Huh?

No Hawg or Butcherbird? I'm crushed...

-cybr-

Hans

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Ok, (picks up Mookies torch). Q&A time.
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 1999, 06:17:00 AM »
K...gotta put this into the bombsight acuracy debate (seeing that I started this thread).

Let me refrase:

I want to see inacurate bombsights, but tempered by very large targets that are hard to miss (aka a WHOLE city block = one target with one damage value).  That way even having said crappy sight (no zoom function or something) you can still hit the target zone everytime.

In essence....its not inacurate at all, but just set to a different/larger scale than what Warbirds uses.

Truth be told, it is not the accuracy I am woried about.  I want to make a single bomb run and drop a complete load as a single salvo.  Thats the key for me.  Its more important to me to have one tough, single, large target than several small, individual targets.

Better yet, have targets of increasing difficulty...by which I mean requiring multi plane formation drops to demolish.  Regular "targets" need 2 planeloads of bombs in 5 seconds or less time to knock it down.  Maybe have several targets that are tougher elsewhere untill you get to the king daddy of targets....the rearmost field "target" that needs an entire flight of 6 bombers to all drop in unison to take it out.

Thats all I want.  Formations dropping in unison on large targets.

Hans.

P.s.

My idea of a map layout.

Individual airfields and their custer of buildings (all side by side and are in fact a lone entity i.e. the "target" for that airfield).  Two B-17s are needed to take it out, and both need to drop within 5 seconds of each other.

The strat targets.  Scattered in various locations not near airfields are the unique targets with the strat functions.  These require 4 plane formations to knock out.  Fuel refinery, ammo production plant, power station, navy yard, warehouse facility, ect.

And one final mother-of-all-targets....the capitol.  Needs 6 B-17s to take it out and has a major effect on the defenders when knocked out...like, say....each feild has a 50% chance of being closed when the capitol is destroyed.