Author Topic: Valid Wonder Weapons  (Read 1375 times)

Offline Karnak

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Valid Wonder Weapons
« on: July 09, 2003, 01:51:31 AM »
The way I see it AH should be limited to units that were actually used in WWII.  That leaves us with, so far as I know, four valid wonder weapons that have not yet been modeled.  The first two are straightforward, the third and fourth are not.  I should also clarify that I do not consider and prop plane a wonder weapon.

1) Meteor F.III
This is simply a fighter, powered by jet engines.  It is Allied, armed with four Hispano Mk II 20mm cannon in the nose and had a top speed of 480mph.  Though faster than prop fighters it is significantly slower than the Me262A-1.  I'd think it would be about 100 to 150 perk points.

2) He162A-2 Salamander "Volksjager"
This is a light, German jet fighter powered by a single engine and  armed with two MG151/20 cannon.  It is reputed to be very manueverable and about the same speed as an Me262.  I think this would also be in the 100 to 150 perk point range.

3) PC 1400 FX "Fritz X"
This was a German remotely guided, armor peircing bomb with a 1400kg warhead.  It would require some way to guide it to it's target, both visually and to control it independantly of the aircraft.  This weapon would also require the Do217, He111H-6 or He177A-5 to be modeled as a launching platform.  I would suggest that a small perk price be added to the normally free bomber when the Fritz X bomb is selected, say 10 to 30 points, and those points are only recovered if the bomb hits a target.

4) MXY-7 Model 11 Ohka (Cherry Blossom) "Baka"
This was a Japanese suicide rocket bomb with a powered range of 23 miles and carrying a 1200kg warhead, dropped from a G4M2e "Betty" bomber.  This would be the most contraversial unit.  I think, though, that it would be interesting and difficult enough to use to make it balanced.  It would require the addition of the G4M2 "Betty" as the delivery platform, a delivery platform that it so happens is very vulnerable.

The way I would see this working is the Betty pilot takes off, either in a single bomber or in a formation, paying a perk price for the Ohka or Ohkas (the Betty with a conventional bombload would be a freebie), setting the Ohka's price at 30 for the sake of arguement, of 30 for a single ship and 90 total for a formation.  The Betty pilot would then need to get other players to join as Ohka pilots via a command like ".ohka Karnak".  When the Betty pilot gets within range of his target he drops the Ohkas and tries to make it home.  The Ohka pilots are then in gliding flight and may light off their engines and attempt to hit the target.  The perk points are redeemed based on the Bettys returning to base, e.g. three Bettys take off costing 90 points but only one manages to straggle home means that 30 points are redeemed.  Due to the lack of survivorablity of the Bettys I think this would be a fair system.





The other wonder weapons that I can think of are the V1, V2 and atomic bomb.  I do not think that any of those would really add anything to AH and so do not consider them really valid.  They are either random, take no skill or do too much damage for a single player.
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Offline brady

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Valid Wonder Weapons
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2003, 02:21:53 AM »
Ya I am for adding the He 162, Capt. Erich Brown considered it the best gun platform of all the WW2 Jet's, I would of rather had it added instead of the 262 actualy.

 As far as the British Jets are concerned I would tend to argue aganst them sice they never actualy shot down an enmy plane but they did see service aganst the V1's.

 
 The Fritz X, or the Hs 293, would be cool toy's, and any excuse to add the He 177 is cool by me:)


  I would like to see the Baka my self, people kill themslefs all the time in AH so this is certainly not a sacrad cow, The down side is we would have a late model Betty added instead of an early one, which we could realy use for those Early CT and SEA set up's.

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2003, 02:25:26 AM »
If the Ta152  is valid the Meteor is valid.

It took out V1s, it did ground strikes, it hunted 262s (not its fault it didn't encounter any) and was involved in a dogfight with Fw190s (hey, that is combat) before some Spitfires arrived and started shooting at the Meteors which then left.  In addition if things had gone worse for the Allies it is the Allied jet fighter that would have been tasked with holding the line so to speak as it is the only one that was in service.


re: Betty

Actually the Ohka (I much prefer Ohka to "Baka" as it is much more a Japanese sentiment) was dropped from G4M2s that had their bomb bay doors removed.  The G4M2 is a 1942 version of the Betty, a reasonable compromise.  It is still unarmored with a huge fuel endurance, unlike the late war G4M4.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2003, 02:34:26 AM by Karnak »
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Offline brady

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« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2003, 04:46:44 AM »
Well the Ta-152 did actualy Kill a maned plane, the Meterior did not but ya it is a week point, I would not realy mind seing it added but their is a sort of fine line in AH about planes actualy seeing combat, and I gues realy the meterior did after a fashion.

     Well Baka is kinda slam your right.

 The G4M2's were actualy entering service in 43, but ya it's not a big streach.

Offline hazed-

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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2003, 08:37:13 AM »
Meteor was far far inferior to the me262 and it would be slaughtered by it if its modelled right. Loads of allied test pilots who flew it and the captured me262's all arrived at the same conclusion.It was no good :)

why add an another aircraft that had barely one combat in WW2?

we need several that had a huge impact and are currently missing, B24 liberator for one.

Offline Furball

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« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2003, 08:50:40 AM »
He162 is not needed imo.

As for the Meteor, the only reason it didnt see air to air combat was because the LW was annihilated and it was kept in england for V1 defence.  It did however attack ground targets and i for one would rather fly the Meteor III in the MA than the 262.
Quote

27 July 1944
First operational flight of the Meteor by F/O MacKenzie (RCAF) patrolling for V1s. Note that these are referred to by the RAF as 'Divers', not 'buzzbombs'.
S/Ldr Watts intercepts a 'Diver' near Ashford but has gun trouble. F/O Dean also has an opportunity.


"F/O Dean sighted one 'Diver' and followed in line astern at 405 mph. He closed in to 1000 yards on 'bomb' estimated flying at 390 mph when he was turned back by Control owing to proximity of balloons."


http://www.redtwo.demon.co.uk/616/jets.htm

So it entered operational service in late july 1944 and...



Quote
3 May 1945
Another airfield "beat up", this time at Schonberg. One Storch, two Ju87, two He111, one Me109 are all destroyed on the ground. The excellent New Zealand Fighter Pilots web site records that of these the BF 109, one He III and one Ju 87 were claimed for W/Co Schrader, who took command of the squadron on 1 May.


so it did get 'kills', if US claim aircraft on the ground as kills, meteors can too! :D
« Last Edit: July 09, 2003, 09:00:08 AM by Furball »
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Offline Karnak

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« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2003, 09:32:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by hazed-
Meteor was far far inferior to the me262 and it would be slaughtered by it if its modelled right. Loads of allied test pilots who flew it and the captured me262's all arrived at the same conclusion.It was no good :)

why add an another aircraft that had barely one combat in WW2?

we need several that had a huge impact and are currently missing, B24 liberator for one.


I agree the Me262 is better, but the Meteor F.III will not be slaughtered in thr MA, not if the Tempest can survive.

As to why we need more barely made it aircraft, well, we don't.  This post wasn't about asking for these aircraft (though I like to see all of these before the B-24, but that's just me) and there are many aircraft that should have higher priority.
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Offline Pepe

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« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2003, 09:36:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
... and was involved in a dogfight with Fw190s (hey, that is combat) before some Spitfires arrived and started shooting at the Meteors which then left....


Definitely this belongs to MA  :D

Offline BenDover

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« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2003, 03:19:54 PM »
what about the tall boy and grandslam?

Offline Red Tail 444

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Re: Valid Wonder Weapons
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2003, 03:22:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak

3) PC 1400 FX "Fritz X"
This was a German remotely guided, armor peircing bomb with a 1400kg warhead.  It would require some way to guide it to it's target, both visually and to control it independantly of the aircraft.  This weapon would also require the Do217, He111H-6 or He177A-5 to be modeled as a launching platform.  I would suggest that a small perk price be added to the normally free bomber when the Fritz X bomb is selected, say 10 to 30 points, and those points are only recovered if the bomb hits a target.

4) MXY-7 Model 11 Ohka (Cherry Blossom) "Baka"
This was a Japanese suicide rocket bomb with a powered range of 23 miles and carrying a 1200kg warhead, dropped from a G4M2e "Betty" bomber.  .


We already got Jugs and P38s being used as guided ordnance...Sheesh! :mad:

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2003, 08:11:42 PM »
Red Tail 444,

Cool down.  These would cost perk points and be attached to a 260mph (when clean) unarmored bomber.  They'd be much easier to stop.
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Offline ramzey

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« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2003, 08:30:42 PM »
and X-wing, T-fighter, Y wing, starship destroyer ..............

ups, its not this game;)

why we should need all this stuff if current AH planes/weapon set have large holes?

Build and perk it? like allmost all perkplanes? How many times per day u see arado? Once a week?
Now is hard to spot 262, i see one or 2 per day when i fly.
When last time any of u saw Ta152 landed with kills?

I think better is "waste" time for build not perked planes then have lots of high perk stuff.
Of course when HTC cover this big hole in JPN-VVS stuf can develop other late war planes and Wunderwaffes.

So far i say NO

ramzey

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2003, 09:13:10 PM »
ramzey,

I didn't say "Bring this in to AH in the next release".  I'm just saying that eventually these might be some nice toys.

Here is my list of aircraft and GVs I'd like to see in the next few releases:

B-25C
M4A3 (75mm)
M4A3 (76mm)
P-38F
P-38G

Mosquito B.Mk IV
Mosquito B.Mk XVI
Spitfire Mk VIII
Wellington Mk III

Bf109G-14
E-Boat
Fw190A-2
Ju52
Ju188A-2
Me410B-2

I-16-24
Il-10
LaGG-3
Pe-2
Pe-2FT
Pe-2B
T-34-76
T-34-85
Yak-1

A6M3b
H8K2
G4M2
Ki-43-II-Ko
Ki-44-II-Otsu
Ki-45
Ki-84-I-Ko
Ki-102

C.200
G.50
G.55/0
Re.2000
Re.2002
Z.1007


There, does that look more like a list you'd like?

Well this thread wasn't about those.  It was about the weird units.  It wasn't even about adding thw weird units NOW.
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Offline BenDover

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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2003, 09:57:17 PM »
What about the pe-8 with the 5000Kg bomb?

Looks like a mini-nuke going off in FB, but knowing FB, its proburly not what it looked like when i went off.

Offline ramzey

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« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2003, 10:22:45 PM »
Im sorry Karnak, every time when i see thread with "would be nice to have this .............." i m getting sick. Special when i see jets on list or nuke;)
Your request are most health on this one /thats mean "in good case whine", if i write something incorect;)/, and i react mayby to hard.

anyway i not like to see any more german jets, even any jets.
No guided weapon and no kamikadze planes. I see enough kamikadzes in tiffies, lightnings and ponys;)

Your list is not complete and in som point i not agree

B-25C  - why not whole list from WB? I like tham all and think its one of most importand planes for US planeset
M4A3 (75mm)
M4A3 (76mm)  - one Sherman is enough
P-38F
P-38G

also
PBY Catalina
B24
P39 D or Q
F2a
B17 D/F

Mosquito B.Mk IV
Mosquito B.Mk XVI
Spitfire Mk VIII  - YESSSSS;) or LF MkIX c-e with merlin 66-70
Wellington Mk III
Blenhaim
Swordfish

Bf109G-14
E-Boat
Fw190A-2
Ju52 - most importand
Ju188A-2  - i not see reason
Me410B-2  same, but maybe as perk plane

also
Ju87G2
Do17 - most importand
He111 - mule of LW



I-16-24
Il-10 - what for?
LaGG-3
Pe-2
Pe-2FT
Pe-2B
T-34-76
T-34-85  - one of this tanks
Yak-1

also
LaGG -1
Mig - 1 or 3
Yak 1b
Yak 1m or yak 3



A6M3b
H8K2
G4M2
Ki-43-II-Ko  - whole Ki44 family
Ki-44-II-Otsu
Ki-45
Ki-84-I-Ko
Ki-102 -  im not sure about this one

C.200
G.50
G.55/0
Re.2000
Re.2002
Z.1007

im not sure about italian planes, maybe only 1 bomber and one fighter, but not so many


ramzey