Author Topic: Valid Wonder Weapons  (Read 1478 times)

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2003, 10:55:35 PM »
Well, as I said, for the next few versions.  That is why I listed only one B-25.  It is needed as an early war Allied buff that the Axis can deal with.  More B-25s would be great later, but the B-26 fills those rolls now just as the B-17 fills the role of the B-24.  I'm interested in plugging holes, not creating overlap while leaving holes open.  Two versions of the Sherman are needed or we cannot do early war scenarios or late war scenarios.

The Swordfish would never get used.  Ever.  Thus it is a waste of time when looking at plugging holes.  The same is true of the Blenheim.  The Wellington works for that time period and might actually be used.  I figure the Spitfire Mk VIII would be the way to go as it is basiclly a Spitfire LF.Mk IX in performance and wouldn't confuse people by having two Spitfire Mk IXs.

The Ju188A-2 would give the Germans a usable bomber in the mid to late war timeframe.  That is why I listed it.  I happen to like the Ju188, most would list the He177A-5.  Why you think the Me410B-2 would be a perk plane is beyond me.  The Mosquito we have would dominate it, let alone something like an La-7.  The He111 and Do17 do the same thing the Ju88A-4 does, therefore they are luxuries to be added after the holes are plugged.  You could make the luxury argument about the Me410 too I guess.  The Ju87G-2 would be nice I agree.

Il-10 would be a good late war tank buster for the MA.  Multiple T-34s are needed for the same reason multiple Shermans are needed.  Those fighters would be nice, but it is really more than is needed immediately.

The Ki-43 is not in the Ki-44 family.  Saying the Nakajima Ki-43, Nakajima Ki-44 and Nakajima Ki-84 are in the same family is like saying the Hawker Hart, Hawker Hurricane and Hawker Typhoon are all in the same family.  They're completely different aircraft.  Ki-102 would be mainly for the MA, it was a Japanese twin engined strike aircraft armed with a 57mm cannon and first used at Okinawa.

I see your point about the Italian stuff.  I guess I was trying to be nice to them given how small the Italian planeset is.  Make it the Re.2002 for a strike aircraft and the S.M.79-II or Z.1007 for a bomber.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2003, 10:57:41 PM by Karnak »
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Offline ramzey

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« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2003, 12:03:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Well, as I said, for the next few versions.  That is why I listed only one B-25.  It is needed as an early war Allied buff that the Axis can deal with.  More B-25s would be great later, but the B-26 fills those rolls now just as the B-17 fills the role of the B-24.  I'm interested in plugging holes, not creating overlap while leaving holes open.  Two versions of the Sherman are needed or we cannot do early war scenarios or late war scenarios.



I think if HTC creat plane its easy to make couple versions at once
So, thats why whole B25 family. This bomber can feed east front too. Imo B26 not feel this role.
Im not interestend in ground battle so u can have what u like, but for early setup i think its need other tank with 45 mm cannon /Grant?/or Matilda and as oposition one of early german tanks

Quote
The Swordfish would never get used.  Ever.  Thus it is a waste of time when looking at plugging holes.  The same is true of the Blenheim.  The Wellington works for that time period and might actually be used.
[/b]


I not agree, if u like to have Italian plnset more equal. RN swordwish sign yourself there too.  And sink som italian ships, as i  remember  som german too. But i can agree id 3rd line of what we need. Blenhaim fit more to early setup then wellington and much more then boston.

Quote
I figure the Spitfire Mk VIII would be the way to go as it is basiclly a Spitfire LF.Mk IX in performance and wouldn't confuse people by having two Spitfire Mk IXs.
[/b]


possibly yes


Quote
The Ju188A-2 would give the Germans a usable bomber in the mid to late war timeframe.  That is why I listed it.  I happen to like the Ju188, most would list the He177A-5.
[/b]


current ju88 fit this role well, late germans bombers not take big part in war. LW need early bomber to balance a bot weeknes of 0.303 guns and DM/who i hope will be more detailed in future/



Quote
Why you think the Me410B-2 would be a perk plane is beyond me. The Mosquito we have would dominate it, let alone something like an La-7.  
[/b]

its damm fast plane with lots of guns. This one "improve" voulching only.  Mix of La7 with mossie.
Im not look pleased eye on LW stuff, so u can say its personal;)


Quote
The He111 and Do17 do the same thing the Ju88A-4 does, therefore they are luxuries to be added after the holes are plugged.
[/b]


no, current ju88 is too fast for 1940 setup and not used in BoB as we use them now. Allies need something what can feed big edge in performance and numbers used in RL. I supose u fly BoB and saw its uncatchable bomber for hurricanes.
Till we not get diferent engine managment who not allow fly all the time 100% throttle and more detailed DM, we will need slower and easier to shot down bomber. Just to feed RAF and close condition to RL. If we have this bomber LW must take care more about bombers who can fly without cover now and not take big casulties from been guns



Quote
Il-10 would be a good late war tank buster for the MA.
[/b]


If u attack trucks or low armored vechicycles yes, for tank its usless as il2 was. More armour and a bit faster plane, nothing much more better then il2.




Quote
Multiple T-34s are needed for the same reason multiple Shermans are needed.[/b]

Not better to have something what can fight with Tiger? KV2 or IS2?


Quote

The Ki-43 is not in the Ki-44 family.  Saying the Nakajima Ki-43, Nakajima Ki-44 and Nakajima Ki-84 are in the same family is like saying the Hawker Hart, Hawker Hurricane and Hawker Typhoon are all in the same family.  They're completely different aircraft.
[/b]


misunderstand, i mean Ki43 -I- Hei, II Otsu , Kai.........
Not Nakajima KI series

Quote
Ki-102 would be mainly for the MA, it was a Japanese twin engined strike aircraft armed with a 57mm cannon and first used at Okinawa.
[/b]


well, possibly yes


Quote
I see your point about the Italian stuff.  I guess I was trying to be nice to them given how small the Italian planeset is.  Make it the Re.2002 for a strike aircraft and the S.M.79-II or Z.1007 for a bomber. [/B]


Regia was not small forces , but mostly unknow in service history for many of us. We can feed italians;) Imo they have enough famus fighter , time for italian bomber.


ramzey

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2003, 12:10:25 AM »
Interesting.

I think you misread the Me410 though.  A Spitfire Mk IX will run it down at low altitude and the Spitfire Mk IX is something that even our crippled Mosquito would outrun.

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Offline ramzey

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« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2003, 12:16:05 AM »
i have bad expirience with thos bird from free WB, possibly by otto issue.Whichone we not have here and i hope never will have/.

It was trauma expirience to get PK every time when u try to close to any otto equiped plane. Something like FB have now

I like to see LW stuff only falling in a flames;)



ramzey

Offline Red Tail 444

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« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2003, 08:55:32 AM »
Well, the a6m7 and F4U-4C sure might be fun, too, but I'd settle for the Ki-84.

karnak, I wasn't hot, I added the wrong face...I never take AH TOO seriously....most of the time :rolleyes:

I thnk a fantasy arena, or a 1947 arena might be nice.


Gainsie...and still grounded.

Offline corrupto

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« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2003, 12:07:21 PM »
More Japanese planes:  I'm all for seeing some other Japanese fighters to flesh out the Japanese Army and Naval air forces. One fighter and one buff would do it.  

More Italian planes:  The C 202/205 was a nice start, but we need either another fighter or a buff.

More German/American planes:  Both sides are doing pretty well compared to the other countries.  I'd hold off until we see how bolstering the Japanese and the Italians goes.  However, some lend lease stuff might be fun-- 'Russian' Airacobras, colonial paintschemes for Brit fighters, attack versions of various bombers.

More GV's:  I'd definitely like to see some Russian armor, a reasonable piece of American armor [something Patton would have approved of], and maybe something small and zippy to compete with the M-8 [a Japanese light tank?].

Wierd Stuff:  V1's, and the Oka are obvious choices and sound like they'd add a big 'wow' factor when people first see one of these things streaking across the sky.  I know I got a huge thrill when I saw the Me163 zip overhead while I was on a NOE mission.  Anyways, perk 'em.  Make 'em tricky to deliver.  Make 'em devastating when they hit.

Perk Monsters:  I think a 'big bertha' gun would be pretty cool.  Stick it on the rails.  Run it like a CV ship...on rails.  Give it a slow as hell rate of fire that works only when stationary, and give it some reasonable game-accuracy.  Give it some manned and unmanned ack, or the ability to spawn a few osties nearby.  Make it cost a huge number of perkies to spawn the thing.  Watch the fun as enemy missions show up to demolish the thing.  If it works out, then maybe, one day, we can get some sort of large battleship that will do similar things.


April Fools Day/Halloween:  I think that they should roll out something unusual for a couple days around April 1st and Halloween.  [yes, the timing might be weird for the international community... but it's the sentiment that counts]  Something just for sh*ts and giggles that's temporary--just a cameo in the MA.  I don't care if it's V2's, barrage baloons, a Goethe, an outclassed ME 108, an out of place Albatross D.V. or a witch on a broomstick--I just want something unusual that'll make me laugh or say 'wow'.


--Corrupto
« Last Edit: July 11, 2003, 12:11:04 PM by corrupto »

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2003, 12:56:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Well, the a6m7 and F4U-4C sure might be fun, too, but I'd settle for the Ki-84.

karnak, I wasn't hot, I added the wrong face...I never take AH TOO seriously....most of the time :rolleyes:

I thnk a fantasy arena, or a 1947 arena might be nice.


Gainsie...and still grounded.


Just give the us Spitfire Mk.XII and I'll be as happy as a pig in a puddle. out-climbs the Spit Mk.XIV (it's 1,000 pounds lighter), rolls as fast as the F4U, turns better than 109G-2 and will pull 380+ mph on the deck. The perfect antidote for the La-7 hordes.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline hazed-

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« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2003, 01:10:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
If the Ta152  is valid the Meteor is valid.

It took out V1s, it did ground strikes, it hunted 262s (not its fault it didn't encounter any) and was involved in a dogfight with Fw190s (hey, that is combat) before some Spitfires arrived and started shooting at the Meteors which then left.  In addition if things had gone worse for the Allies it is the Allied jet fighter that would have been tasked with holding the line so to speak as it is the only one that was in service.


re: Betty

Actually the Ohka (I much prefer Ohka to "Baka" as it is much more a Japanese sentiment) was dropped from G4M2s that had their bomb bay doors removed.  The G4M2 is a 1942 version of the Betty, a reasonable compromise.  It is still unarmored with a huge fuel endurance, unlike the late war G4M4.



actually if your criteria is actual combat with another manned aircraft then im afraid the Ta152 is far more valid than any Allied jet.Saw a lot more combats.

My veiw is this: AH is essentailly a simulation of WW2 and whilst some of the wonder weapons are cool for the odd crazy flight , overall they really struggle to find a role to play in the MA especially due to perk costs.So personally faced with the choice of the he162 and say a 190a3 or a6 Id much rather see the 190 purely because it has actually fought other aircraft, it wouldnt cost perks to fly and would be seen in the MA often.
I thought one of the biggest problems with the last AH update was the CHOICE of planes HTC decided on. It wasnt that i didnt want the aircraft they added, it wasnt that there was anything else i was particularly desperate to see, it was more the fact that almost every one was next to useless as a day to day MA aircraft:
The Ju87 i loved but i rarely see it or use it,
The 163 is fun but again rarely seen or used
P40b/e were the most used of those added but even then I struggle to find use for them.
(I think they need to mix rare types with more 'usable' types that wont get perked)

so with this in mind I can only agree with 2 choices in your list but even then i have reservations about one of them,

The fritzX missile I feel is a valid weapon to be added. It was used often in WW2 and was an excellent weapon. It was effective and actually sank quite a few ships, not least of which was a British Cruiser. It would have a good use in scenarios,CT,MA and all other types of arenas. It would be an unusual weapon, not often seen(if ever?) in games and so would be an added attraction in a unique way for AH.

The Baka is possibly ok IF it saw plenty of use.I unfortunately dont know much about it other than the only attack i know of that used them was broken up before it even began.If there is no other uses of this weapon then im afraid even this aircraft is a pointless addition.I dont agree with the kamakazi attitude of gamers in AH and this would encourage it so thats another reason i wouldnt desire to see it in AH anytime soon but if we have to see kamakazi's all the time, which we seem to we may as well make them use specialist weapons.

The he162 saw very little action. For me its pointless as an addition.what can it give us that we havent already got in the Me262.

The Meteor saw no action whatsoever involving enemy manned aircraft. It shot down V1 flying bombs but as we dont even have a V1 in AH then whats the point? I have absolutely no desire to see me262s and meteors fighting in AH.Im sorry its fantasy.Thats not what i play AH for I want it as near to real as we can make a game personally.



As for some of the other suggestions I like many of them.I disagree the swordfish would see no use. If only because I would use it myself! :) but I do think that, like the ju87, it wont see very much use overall and so shouldnt be a priority.

B25's, early 190s, early p38s,P47N even the 109K I think should come before the more obscure aircraft.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2003, 04:42:33 PM by hazed- »

Offline hazed-

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« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2003, 04:39:19 PM »
btw karnak please dont take this as a slam against the thread. I agree 90% of the time with your posts and you seem to have similar ideas about how you would want AH to progress.Others i noticed are seemingly taking this thread a bit too literally when its clearly just an effort to get us musing over what we would like to see :). I got it hehe

The B24 btw i would also rate as a low priority atm because we already have the B17 but we do have a large gap in Allied early heavies, I think the b24 would fit this niche nicely.

Im a little against too much of an emphasis on the eastern front but this is a selfish point for me.Its not that i dont think its fair to want them or add them, its just that Russian aircraft dont grab my interest very much.I can appreciate there are those that they do excite though and its only fair to let them request them.

I do agree with you about more Italian aircraft and I would be happy to see the Piaggio P108 as the Axis heavy, although again I'd rather see the He177 for purely selfish reasons ;).Btw karnak did you know that some P108's had a 102mm cannon fitted into the fuselage for anti-shipping roles?

the few Russian aircraft I would like to see would be the I-16/10 or the I-153
Italian would be the Cr42 and C.200,

The Reggiane 2001,2002,2005 for me are all too similar in performance to the c.205 to be worth modelling really.(in fact the 205 beats them in pretty much any category but only by a small margin)

your choice of British aircraft:
Mosquito B.Mk IV   (not my first choice)
Mosquito B.Mk XVI  (yes i agree)
Spitfire Mk VIII - YESSSSS or LF MkIX c-e with merlin 66-70  (not for me! :))
Wellington Mk III (yes i agree)
Blenheim (yes i agree )
Swordfish (YES PLEASE :))

Bf109G-14 (109K-4 i think would be better)
E-Boat  (hmm not really)
Fw190A-2  (definately not the best 190 but good for scenarios)
Id rather the 190A3 myself.

Ju52 - most importand  (needed i think)
Ju188A-2 - i not see reason (decent bombload,better defensive armament,LOT faster but again id rather the he-177)
Me410B-2 same, but maybe as perk plane (Id also like to see it but why a perk ride?:confused: )

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2003, 05:15:51 PM »
Hazed,

The Ohka was used successfully on at least one occasion, sinking two American destroyers.  The first attack was a complete failure though.

I agree that the Me410B-2 is not perk worthy.  That was ramzey's suggestion which I was trying to refute.

As far as the Meteor Mk III, it did have the fight with the Fw190s and it was in active, non-experimental, service for months prior to the conclusion of the European war.  I think that is enough to make it a WWII aircraft.

In regards to the Ju188A-2 vs the He177A-5, it is simply that I like the Ju188 far, far more.  It would be quite usable in the MA.  It is faster than the He177, better armed than the Ki-67 and carries a larger payload than the B-17G.  It was also far mosre successful historically than the He177 as well.

Did I mention how much better it looks?:D
« Last Edit: July 11, 2003, 05:18:45 PM by Karnak »
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Offline Replicant

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« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2003, 05:17:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by brady


 As far as the British Jets are concerned I would tend to argue aganst them sice they never actualy shot down an enmy plane but they did see service aganst the V1's.

 


C47 probably didn't shoot anything down yet we got one of them!  As far as I'm concerned, if any WW2 aircraft saw operational action then it's eligible for inclusion.  Bring the Meteor III to AH!

As for the He162, didn't it have an ejection seat?  That would be cool to model! :)
NEXX

Offline rshubert

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« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2003, 03:09:40 PM »
need to get out of the MA more often.  Arguments against some early war rides are only valid in the MA, where they are put up against the late war stuff.

Now for the Advertising:

Operation Iceberg, the Battle for Okinawa, will be recruiting pilots starting on Saturday, July 19.

We have Ohkas.  Cherry blossoms.  Bakas.

That's right, you too can slam your ride into the vulnerable deck of an Essex class CV and die for the Emperor alongside other members of your high school class!  Or try to stop the noble but deluded Japanese teenager from destroying your ship and killing your shipmates.

This is going to be GREAT!  Join in the fun.

Offline corrupto

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« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2003, 09:38:04 AM »
"other members of your highschool class!"  

Ghoulish humor, but I like it.


I also wanna put in a plug for the Swordfish.  I'd love to fly it.   It'd be a real lark to drop a torp on an unsuspecting PT after the CV has been destroyed.



If I recall correctly, there was some effort to bring in the Brewster Buffalo.  What do you all think about that?  I've also heard of something sort of similar called a Wirraway or a Boomerang(sp?).  Did it see much service, or would they be fun to have?

Offline Zanth

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« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2003, 12:25:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ramzey
When last time any of u saw Ta152 landed with kills?


I bet there are some pilots that will accept this challenge.  Just from raw stats it has more kills in MA than the A6m2, 202, or P-40's and is 6th in K/D ranking.  Somebody somewhere is using it well.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2003, 12:40:21 PM by Zanth »

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2003, 03:46:34 AM »
rshubert,

Did you even read my post?  Have you read some of my other posts?

Oh, for shame!!!!  I have abandoned the holy quest by mentioning aircraft and weapons that were used after 1941.  Gasp!!!  How could I?:rolleyes:

Jeez.  Lighten up.

I have posted about many early war aircraft that I'd like to see, even though early war isn't really my cup of tea.  Mind you, late war isn't my cup of tea either.  I prefer the variety, with capability, of the mid war period.

Nonetheless, mentioning late war items does not mean that I only fly in the MA or that I only want super weapons.  It might mean that I simply want to discuss some late war equipment that doesn't normally get discussed.


BTW,

I think the Ohka would be far more interesting to use than suicide P-51s due to its crappy delivery system.  Because of that tension, hanging there beneath a slow assed, unarmored, G4M2e "Betty" I think the Ohka might be neat and completely different than the invulnerable suicide P-51s.
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