Fighter vs Fighter stats - 10 days with no CHOG

[Torgo]

 

Originally posted by Kieran:
Here's what the numbers don't show: the hue and cry moved immediately to a new aircraft to persecute.

[/b]

What hue and cry? I see hardly any calls to perk anything, now, on the board or in the MA (admittedly, haven't flown all that much recently.)  

The only talk of perking I ever see is the usual people unhappy with the CHog perking tossing out further perking as straw-man arguments.

[Mr. T]

 

Originally posted by Torgo:
I've always found it incomprehensible that so many people have whined about the Niki being a super-UFO; in fact, prior to the perking of the CHog, it became trendy for people to claim the CHog sucked and that what they REALLY were afraid of was Nikis. (despite the fact the CHog K/D was ALWAYS far better than the Niki, and the Niki's K/D has ALWAYS been mediocre.)

Now this statement here begs me to ask you, WHAT do you think is the ultimate total air warfare weapon?

Powerful guns, lots of ammunition, ability to carry high explosives, and speed.

F4U-1C had all of that. Which in turn lends itself to be the ULTIMATE ground pounder (note: not ultimate A2A weapon).

I'll bet dollar to donuts that atleast half the F4U-1C's kills came from the fact it was used for base suppression/vulching.

No one would use a N1K2 in the role the F4U-1C was used, thus it's kill/death will not be disproportionate.

So yes, you are correct... the N1K2 will never see the kills and kill/death percentage of the F4U-1C.

If the Typhoon had larger ammo loads, yeah you'd see that one replace the F4U-1C in total kills.
-SW

[Karnak]

SW,

I don't recall myself, or anybody else, suggesting that perking the F4U-1C would magically reduce the numbers of the N1K2 and Spitfire MkIX.  The N1K2 and Spitfire MkIX were the 2nd and 3rd most popular fighters before the F4U-1C was perked, of course they are going to be the 1st and 2nd most popular after the F4U-1C has been perked.

The fact is that the lead aircraft no longer has more than twice as many kills as the 2nd aircraft and the 2nd aircraft continues to have fewer than twice the kills of the 3rd aircraft.  In fact no aircraft now has twice the kills of the aircraft below it, well, maybe the C-47A.  There are still two clear leaders, but they lead my a much smaller margin.

Like Torgo, I have not noticed any "hue and cry" to perk the just N1K2 and Spitfire MkIX, other than from those who are outraged at the perking of the F4U-1C.  It seems to me that those people are trying to take the thing to a ridicules extreme to prove some point that only they believe.  If anything is taken to its extreme it becomes ridicules.

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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!

Sisu
-Karnak

[StSanta]

My problem with the Chog was the way it was used as an anti tank vulching dweeb platform.

The N1K cannot do that.

Us LW's have to take eggs to kill panzers and flaks, and we ain't got any rockets, and we can only take few eggs (50kgs are not effective panzer/ostie killers, a kill for me is the exception rather than the rule).

For this reason alone, I think HTC made a VERY good decision about the F4UC.

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Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"

[Mr. T]

 

Originally posted by Karnak:
If anything is taken to its extreme it becomes ridicules.

Kinda like the "perk the chog" stuff I would presume.

It was always something with them. I never flew 'em and I hated them to the extreme... you would never catch me in one.

But damn were they fun to blow outta the sky.

But as I said before, we are only 11 days into the tour.. a lot could change.
-SW

[AKDejaVu]

When the A5 was used more than the CHog, people were complaining about the CHog's high K/D ratio saying it didn't matter how many kills it had.

When the Chog K/D ratio went down and usage went up, people said it didn't matter that the A-5 had a higher K/D ratio... it was the high usage that mattered.

BTW.. is anyone else noticing one painfully obvious thing?... there are going to be fewer kills this tour period.  That means pilots are flying less (or fewer pilots are flying).  There really isn't much that indicates any real transition to another plane has occured.  It just seems as if some people have stopped flying.

AKDejaVu

[Kieran]

Torgo-

Fly the Nikki in the arena. See what happens when you kill people. You will hear some of the elitists and the wannabes call you names for being in it.

The point isn't what is perked or what isn't. The point is that there are planes in the arena that are available, but not really available. New people that come to the game are coerced to flying what the elite call "real-men" planes, hopefully (to the elite) rendering some planes defacto unusable.

There exists a movement to address the Nikki, some of it justified IMHO, but some of it just ridiculous.

[R4M]

Dejavu, I posted some time ago the stats for that tour (the one when teh A5 got more kill than the Chog). The most used plane was the Spit, the second teh A5 and the third the Chog, but only 50 kills behind the A5. That was one of the most balanced TODs I remember, BTW.

Oh, and BTW we werent yelling "perk anything" at that moment for the simple reason that at that time the Perk system was NOT implemented (And IF I recall correctly, it was NOT a public issue yet). We were saying "fix the turbolasers", not "perk teh chog".

On the current thread issue, the N1K2 and Spit IX are where they were last tours, having between 1.5-2 times the kills the P51D has. So, it is EXACTLY the same situation as last tours.

As the pro-perk crowd said, the numbers of ex-chog kills are pretty evenly distributed now. NO massive migration. NO massive presence of N1K2s in teh MA, and NO yell to perk it (regardless that many many people who were against the perking of the Chog are NOW insising that we are saying "perk it" now, we aren't).

In short. We were right. true, the numbers are from a 11 day time and to extract conclusions may be precipitation, but this trend has been IDENTICAL since day one of this tour.  In other words, since day one this trend is the one ruling.

I bet that when the tour ends the same ones who are now yelling that this stats should not be credited with so much attention becuause this is data from 11 days of this tour, say that "it is only one tour, wait another"

They will do WHATEVER before admitting they were wrong.

Because, of course, they can't be...they have seen this same story so many many times before....

 

[Mr. T]

 

Originally posted by R4M:
Oh, and BTW we werent yelling "perk anything" at that moment for the simple reason that at that time the Perk system was NOT implemented (And IF I recall correctly, it was NOT a public issue yet). We were saying "fix the turbolasers", not "perk teh chog".

Yeah you're right..........
.....
....
You said "REMOVE THE Golly-geeN CHOG" or something to that effect.

Selective memory... or something.
-SW

[Mr. T]

I'll help you remember, since your memory seems to be broken RAM... http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/003252.html  http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/005916.html
And here's the ultimate in roadkill threads about perking... Trying to hit every nail on the head until you found the right one that people could agree with: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/005571.html
-SW

[Vruth]

SW said:  

Kinda like the "perk the chog" stuff I would presume.

It was always something with them. I never flew 'em and I hated them to the extreme... you would never catch me in one.

But damn were they fun to blow outta the sky.

But as I said before, we are only 11 days into the tour.. a lot could change.
-SW

SW - I agree, we are too early into the tour to start making projections. Anything could change.

AkDejaVu - how are you estimating the change? Based on a 11 day survey of the current data? I mean, I love the data, but I question it's integrity for this tour.  You may be just be putting salt on a sore wound.  

I'm curious, what were you hoping to accomplish by posting the results?

Vruth
 

[Pongo]

In its post perked chog incantation the perk the niki campaign is a pure fabrication of the ministry of chog preservation. The posts calling for a perk of anything else are almost all negative comments made to create the impression that people are crying to perk the spit and or niki. On the BBs that is not the case. In the MA I cant say but on this bbs the ruckus about perking anything is with a few exceptions all being generated by people that want the chog unperked. Almost all are acompanied by pompous "I told you so" statements.
There are fewer kills probably because the big killing machine is alot rarer. Reach for whatever argument you like that supports your position. But 25% or the people flying AC that are much less deadly will generate lots of wounded but landable planes. The simple expediant of putting the cannon battery of the chog on the P51 would quickly replace all those lost kills.


Those nasty elitists....LOL

[brady]

Ripsnort said:


 "Oh, Brady, come to the TA sometime, I will show you that a N1K or a SPit can kill a GV just fine."

  I do not dispute the fact that they can Rip I know they can, they just cant kill as much in a single sortie, the cannons on the spitt are the same as on the C hog  so they can do the same thing, just not as much since the C hog carries more ammo/ordance.The George can kill GV's with bombs or those tin can's the US called halftracks no sweat, but the type 99 MK II has a piss pore anti armor effect aganst tanks, so hear agin it is not a doo it all plane like the C hog, u also half to get in about 400 yards to consistently hit aircraft do to the poorer range effects of the Type 99 MK II compared to the hispano, which is good out to 1200yard's at least in my experience.

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[This message has been edited by brady (edited 05-11-2001).]

[Kieran]

Didn't say I wanted the C-Hawg unperked, said I am disturbed by the trend it represents and the jigs of the victorious.

 

Fly the Nikki in the arena. See what happens when you kill people. You will hear some of the elitists and the wannabes call you names for being in it.

Are you saying this is untrue?

[AKDejaVu]

 

AkDejaVu - how are you estimating the change? Based on a 11 day survey of the current data? I mean, I love the data, but I question it's integrity for this tour. You may be just be putting salt on a sore wound.

I'm curious, what were you hoping to accomplish by posting the results?

Just posting data.  Its all Fighter vs Fighter results since most of the complaints were stemming from fighter encounters (too much e.. turbo-laser HO attempts... etc).

One thing I did want to show was that the average usage for most aircraft is going down... despite the fact that fewer people are flying the Chog.  What are they flying or are the simply not flying as much?

AKDejaVu