Author Topic: U.S. domestic problems vs 3rd world  (Read 933 times)

Offline Frogm4n

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U.S. domestic problems vs 3rd world
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2003, 04:38:22 PM »
i studied in japan for half a year miko. their gdp/ person seemed far higher then ours. Plus i would say they lived happier lives then we do on average. And noone will ever convince me that the living standards in western europe are(especially italy) as low as ours. One underestimate what good cheese beer and bread(food in general) has on the human experience.



I also think our GDP is overestimated through waste, and our inflation and unemployment rates are jokes when you look at how they determine those numbers.

Offline miko2d

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U.S. domestic problems vs 3rd world
« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2003, 04:57:46 PM »
Frogm4n: And then explain to me how supply side economic policys will benefit the average american?

 Supply Side economic would, if it were conducted.

 The only way to increase real wages/income is to increase production per person which means to increase productivity per person and the only way of increasing productivity per person - at least untill we start genetic modification of human beings -  is to increase the amount of productive capital per person (not just physical capital, intellectual capital such as education and knowlege base too).

 In order to accumulate/create capital one needs to promote investment  which comes from saving rather than consumption.

 When talking about saving and investment I am talking of course about real funding - real goods directed towards labor working on creating capital factors - rather than paper money created from the thin air.

 So Bush's talk of stimulating consumption is a polar opposite of the Supply Side - for which his father George Bush the elder coined the term "woodoo economics" when he ran against Reagan. His policies is another matter as well. If increased government spending diverts more resources from productive use in capital creation, what good are tax cuts paid with money printed by federal reserve?

 Also, Greenspan's policies are not monetarist in the slightest.


Big business does more to fetter the markets then government regulations ever did.

 Name me a case and I will show you that it was government that enabled it to do so. No business or labor union ever shied from using the power of government to restrict the competition. If the government was separate from economy, they would not be able to do so.


I also think our GDP is overestimated through waste, and our inflation and unemployment rates are jokes when you look at how they determine those numbers.

 Here is how:

 1950: A man earns $100 making widget, a woman stays home, raises 4 children, cooks dinner.
 GNP is $100. One widget and 4 good children are produced.

 2000: A man earns $100 making a widget. A woman earns $100 making a widget. She buys the same dinner for $50 and pays babysitter to raise her 2 children another $50. ($300 now)
 A government bureaucrat administers new regulations for the salary of $100.
 An accountant and a layer are employed by the widget producer to help deal with the new government regulations for 2x$100.
 A correction officer is employed for $100 prividung valuable services of guarding a fellow that is serving time for smoking pot which became a crime since 1950.
 A welfare caseworker is employed for $100 - her work is counted as a service too.

GNP is $800 (forget inflation for a while). Two widgets and 2 screwed up children are produced.
 Are we really 8 times better off? Twice as well? Worse? You tell me.

 miko

Offline Frogm4n

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U.S. domestic problems vs 3rd world
« Reply #32 on: July 15, 2003, 05:03:11 PM »
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Name me a case



enron

any oligopoly or monopoly


in a market a firms profits tend towards zero overtime. and thus the consumer benefits. Big business undermines this any chance they can get.

Offline ra

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U.S. domestic problems vs 3rd world
« Reply #33 on: July 15, 2003, 06:01:06 PM »
Wow.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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U.S. domestic problems vs 3rd world
« Reply #34 on: July 15, 2003, 09:28:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Frogm4n



in a market a firms profits tend towards zero overtime. and thus the consumer benefits. Big business undermines this any chance they can get.


Thats not really true. That only happends in long term perfect competition  - which really only exists in theory for the most part. It is of cours a n ice "ideal" and it's benefits are what drive us towards protecting ;)  competition.

However your notion that "Big" business undermines it at every cahnce is pretty laughable.  For example any small greek seafood restaurant violates the conditions of perfect compettion by charging too much and producing too little output at various times both in short and long run.  :)  Basically I'm suggesting you lay of the left wing "Big" business propaganda...  :)
« Last Edit: July 15, 2003, 09:55:10 PM by GRUNHERZ »

Offline LePaul

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U.S. domestic problems vs 3rd world
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2003, 09:29:33 AM »
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Originally posted by Rude
Look....I don't really expect a liberal or socialist like yourself to ever agree with me....still, I'll make an effort.

I'm not a pure supply sider....however, money in the hands of the government is not my bag. Tax cuts are the basis for supply side economics....your argument is that it has never worked....your defense is Reagans years thru the eighties brought huge deficits....I contend those deficits were born out of unbridled spending by democrats and the military build up which buried the Soviet Union.

Liberals want the Government to provide everything....that course merely destroys the work ethic and breeds a society of tit suckers.

Consider yourself a tit sucker in my book.:)

BTW....higher education guarantees no road to excellence....hard work and ambition along with that education will bring positive results.

Your not on welfare are you?


That's one of the best summaries I've read in a long time.  Pure genius  ;)

But Rude, there are people who will argue to their dying breath that the US Gov't owes them.    The only thing the Dems do is advocate class envy.

Offline miko2d

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U.S. domestic problems vs 3rd world
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2003, 01:38:55 PM »
Frogm4n: enron

 False. Enron could do what they did only in the cooperation with all kind of government entities in the conditins that were not a free market but a heavily regulated environment.
 Sure, in a free market companies can fail - including for the reasons of fraud. But the only people suffering financial loss would be the owners/shareholders of the company and those who took risk by loaning it money.

any oligopoly or monopoly

 Would you care to name one that does not owe it's existence to the government-granted privilege and government-imposed restriction on it's competition?


in a market a firms profits tend towards zero overtime. and thus the consumer benefits.

 In theoretical case of ERE - sure. But in real world innovation and change in consumer preferences makes sure that profits (and losses) are always present.

Big business undermines this any chance they can get.

 But it can only do so if the competition is artificially restricted by the government.

 miko