Author Topic: Maneuvers that may save your life! (Read 1202 times)

Fishu · « **Reply #15 on:** July 17, 2003, 05:45:17 AM »

Hazed,

Problem with that downwards scissor move is you'll loose tremendous amount of E and if the enemy is any smart, he remains at altitude and then hes way above you and you didn't even benefit from the altitudes E (since you lost E with the spiral, which the enemy doesn't have to do when coming down on you), like he will, when he decides to dive on you.

Altitude is life - and that doesnt mean orbiting at 30,000ft, but using the altitude you have, the best you can.

Zanth · « **Reply #16 on:** July 17, 2003, 09:13:07 AM »

I guess gettign off topic....But the alt is life stuff I have always taken to ideally mean having 2 to 3k over your enemy. I don't know where I read that, I think in "the" book. (This is to also say, as I understand it, that too much alt is bad ACM too)

culero · « **Reply #17 on:** July 17, 2003, 09:15:28 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by davidpt40
Thanks for posting that story alpo. Did Anderson kill the 109? Seems like I remember him saying he did.

Yeah, he did. The 109 stalled and fell out, Anderson rolled over for the gun solution.

Bud Anderson told that story at the Indy AW Con in 2000, where he was a guest speaker at the banquet - it was really cool, he was animated as he told it, using his hands to represent the positions of the planes, holding the room in silence and awe.

What was coolest about it was watching the large number of sim pilots sitting there, giving each other little side glances and nods of recognition, silently mouthing the words "rope a dope" at each other - he told a few of us later in conversation that it was the first time he'd told the story to a room full of people who seemed to totally understand what he meant

culero

culero · « **Reply #18 on:** July 17, 2003, 09:51:43 AM »

An off-topic but related item:

That's Bud Anderson cutting it up with Robert Shaw (yeah, that Robert Shaw) at that same AW Con in Indy.

culero (wishes he coulda made the ongoing AH Indy Con)

corrupto · « **Reply #19 on:** July 17, 2003, 09:53:30 AM »

I highly recomend using the positive G blackout to your advantage. Start a dive to gather plenty of speed as your enemy follows. At D1000-600 begin the hard turn or loop to get your enemy hooked. Crank the turn after a moment to induce the blackout. After a count of 2 or so, change directions of the turn or loop by 45 degrees minimum, and release the turn to figure out where the bugger is. Escape, or find the poor bastard lower than you and go for him.

This tactic works particularly well against compressible German planes because their pilots usually are tentative/cautious in the initial dive which buys you a teensy bit of time to set the trick up.

This is definitely not the best low altitude tactic unless: #1 you're in a A6M, FM2/F4F, hurricane or some other uber turner #2 during the blackout you know exactly where mother earth is and you avoid her.

Widewing · « **Reply #20 on:** July 17, 2003, 06:59:37 PM »

The best move you can possibly have is never allow anyone to gain your 6 within 2k range unnoticed.

I can't think of any faster way to get smacked than maneuvering without vision. Your enemy need only set up a relaxed lag pursuit and you will find yourself without E or options when you ease off the back pressure.

Wing up with a guy who never seems to die, but kills everything he engages. Watch what he does and learn from it. Then, above all else, concentrate on you SA, because that, more than any other aspect of the game, will make the biggest difference in your results.

My regards,

Widewing

udet · « **Reply #21 on:** July 18, 2003, 01:06:53 PM »

here's a maneuver that will ALWAYS save your life:

Whenever you see a con, press Enter three times!!!

humble · « **Reply #22 on:** July 18, 2003, 01:22:23 PM »

The biggest problem I see here is it highlights just how pitiful the state of affairs in the MA has gone. This is certainly NOT ment to be a rip on davidpt40 or the thread topic. However niether of the points mentioned is actually a "move" of any kind. Realistically only a total newbie will consistantly fall for either ploy.

Obviously getting under an impending HO is a good idea...but any decent stick is going to be going up vs a slow (assuming since scissors mentioned) pony on the deck. Absolutely no reason to HO a dying pony....also a scissors will normally result in front quarter shots not a true HO. Pony in the right hands is actually an excellent dogfighter if you can keep fight a bit in the vertical to keep the flaps in play. Scissor really only comes into play vs a higher E bogie. To get HO's you almost have to be in a "two circle" fight down low.

The Bud Anderson quote is started mid point if I remember right. A good rope requires some type of setup against an experienced pilot. Rarely will an experienced stick follow you up (yes it does happen) to a stall. Obviously we have a great help since we have range counters vs real life. A good pilot will know if he has the E to overtake you and catch you like a hanging curve 90% of the time.

Steve · « **Reply #23 on:** July 18, 2003, 03:26:19 PM »

Ouch Humble... I think many of us recognized the same points you made but we decided not to say anything. Why curb a young cub's enthusiasm?
Seemed to me that a realtively new guy learned a couple of ways to get kills and was just expressing his joy. Your disclaimer doesn't really dampen your words.... they were much better left unsaid.

Steve

hazed- · « **Reply #24 on:** July 18, 2003, 04:38:31 PM »

Theres nothing wrong with enjoying yourself and throwing caution to the wind now and then fariz

Don you ever take off when its being vulched and try to take a few with you ? or do reaally silly things like fly through a hanger when an enemy plane is 300 yards off your 6 to make them laugh?

.

I like to play seriously now and then , play to survive as it were. But I also like to just play now and then. I just head to enemy expecting to get bounced and practice some tricks. Its fun to mess around too,

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #25 on:** July 18, 2003, 04:53:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by culero
Yeah, he did. The 109 stalled and fell out, Anderson rolled over for the gun solution.

Bud Anderson told that story at the Indy AW Con in 2000, where he was a guest speaker at the banquet - it was really cool, he was animated as he told it, using his hands to represent the positions of the planes, holding the room in silence and awe.

What was coolest about it was watching the large number of sim pilots sitting there, giving each other little side glances and nods of recognition, silently mouthing the words "rope a dope" at each other - he told a few of us later in conversation that it was the first time he'd told the story to a room full of people who seemed to totally understand what he meant

culero

Wasn't he also at the '98 Con in SF? Or maybe I'm getting old that it was at the '98 WB Con I saw him at.

Ack-Ack

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #26 on:** July 18, 2003, 04:58:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by corrupto
I highly recomend using the positive G blackout to your advantage. Start a dive to gather plenty of speed as your enemy follows. At D1000-600 begin the hard turn or loop to get your enemy hooked. Crank the turn after a moment to induce the blackout. After a count of 2 or so, change directions of the turn or loop by 45 degrees minimum, and release the turn to figure out where the bugger is. Escape, or find the poor bastard lower than you and go for him.

This tactic works particularly well against compressible German planes because their pilots usually are tentative/cautious in the initial dive which buys you a teensy bit of time to set the trick up.

This is definitely not the best low altitude tactic unless: #1 you're in a A6M, FM2/F4F, hurricane or some other uber turner #2 during the blackout you know exactly where mother earth is and you avoid her.

The problem with that one is if the chasing plane recognizes what you're about to do (and most good veteran pilots will) and they just hang back and wait until you pull into that hard G maneuver and blast you out of the sky or they just simply level out while you dive and gain the altitude advantage and then just dive on you at leisure until you're dead.

Ack-Ack

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #27 on:** July 18, 2003, 05:02:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by humble

Rarely will an experienced stick follow you up (yes it does happen) to a stall. Obviously we have a great help since we have range counters vs real life. A good pilot will know if he has the E to overtake you and catch you like a hanging curve 90% of the time.

It happens far more than you realize. The majority of my kills are from various Rope-A-Dweeb maneuvers, while some of them are newbies and less skilled players, a surprising large amount of them are veteran players that should know better.

Ack-Ack

straffo · « **Reply #28 on:** July 18, 2003, 05:06:58 PM »

no need for ACM if you want to preserve your virtual life :
[list=1]

log on
look at number
65 for the knit (your country)
85 for the rook
136 for the bishes
5 fields left
Dar is down
All strats are in enemy territory
Log off

Steve · « **Reply #29 on:** July 18, 2003, 05:49:41 PM »

I understand your feelings Straffo, I have a couple friends that I play paintball with. Like you, they won't play unless they have a clear numerical advantage. Like you, they will pack their bags and go home. I don't mind though, I don't like playing w/ whiners anyway.