Author Topic: Pyro - Squad Plane Skins (Read 607 times)

Midnight · « **on:** July 17, 2003, 02:33:32 PM »

Pyro, I know in the other thread you said there would be no "custom" skins for individual players or sqauds. Even so, please give this some consideration...

For a nominal fee (say $50 to $100 per skin/per aircraft) a squad could submit a skin to HTC for use in the MA. That skin would then only be available to members of that squad. The players in the squad could select any available skin they wanted, but for squad night activities or other events, the squad could all suit up in the same skin.

Of course the submitted skins would need to be approved by HTC, but the submission would allow for a little more "historical" creative freedom.

In this example, my squad, the 412th FS, would submit skins for the P-51D and the P-51B. The P-51D might look something like this

jjdude · « **Reply #1 on:** July 17, 2003, 02:48:37 PM »

i like the idea, except for the 50$-100$ fee, i know i wouldnt pay that much. then again i am pretty cheap

Batz · « **Reply #2 on:** July 17, 2003, 03:04:58 PM »

I know there are guys like myself (cant see your skin btw) who are opposed to made up "squad skins".

These will lead to many made up goof ball skins and ruin what little immersion is left in ah.

Of course if the skin is only seen on your fe I could careleess.

But the 466th ninja butterfly rainbow squad with his full color spectrum "squad skin" is not something I would like to see.

Since as pyro said theres the potential to end up with 100s of skins I would hope that the standard for a skin to be accepted is high and we only get top quality, historical paint schemes with a severe limit on redundancy.

Midnight · « **Reply #3 on:** July 17, 2003, 03:52:30 PM »

I agree Batz. Re-read my post and you will see that I would expect thatr squad skins would look historical, just allow for a little more freedom..

The skin I intended on is very similar to the 357th FS, only the colors are blue and yellow checkers and the tail has the 412th FS logo on it. Other than that, it looks like any other WWII post D-Day Mustang.

Batz · « **Reply #4 on:** July 17, 2003, 04:46:02 PM »

as well meaning as your suggestion maybe it doesnt address the problem or redundancy or consider the "fairness issue".

ie "If they can have their non-historic squad skin why cant we"

or "whats wrong with my pink and purple checker board and sheep head?"

etc... etc..

There are many squads in ah, many fly the same aircraft. We could end up with dozens of f4u variants or p51 variants or spit variants etc.....

As I said if the skins are something that the whole of the community doesnt have to dl, ie look at; then who cares.

If skins are restricted to your fe, or if all skins dont need to be dl'd onto my hd (if skin isnt present it shows default skin) then I dont care about the "466 th rainbow butterflies" as I dont have to look at them.

Which brings another question why would any one dl the skin onto their hd if they can never use it. Then the whole idea of squads skins means nothing outside the few guys in your squad. Then why would ht/pyro waste their time ?

For the hundred bucks or so? Would it even be worth it to your squad to pay money for a skin no one else will see?

You could do your own squad skin up now in a high resolution and fly it offline or in h2h. All for free.

IMHO I just dont see the point but GL with all that

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #5 on:** July 17, 2003, 05:11:59 PM »

I would like to see this option (minus the $$$$ suggestion) for the squadrons based on historical squadrons. I know my squad would really like to be able to choose P-38 and P-51 skins based on the 479th FG and I'm sure the other historical based squadrons in here would like to as well.

Ack-Ack

Batz · « **Reply #6 on:** July 17, 2003, 05:46:33 PM »

I dont object to that either but I would hope that those skins dont end up being exclusively used by one squadron. Like pyro I feel any skin I need to have on my hd I should get use of. If squads are allowed to use a specific skin exclusively then I dont wanna have to have on my hd and have no interest in "seeing" it.

Theres a real concern of ending up with hundreds of skins and if folks are forced to dl skins they cant use its just a waste of space.

ramzey · « **Reply #7 on:** July 17, 2003, 09:10:12 PM »

And thats why i propose custom letters/numbers code markings only, as substitute for fully custms skins.
Similar possibility like il2 have, but assigned by squad lider.

In system like this will be one or 2 diferent camos per plane and various of markings.With squad logo that can give all feel individual.
But looks like game engine not allow for that.

HTC choice is very resonable for download and game speed.
Over all for good of players.

Even if im not fully pleased, i feel happy having som sort of "custom" skins in AH2. our expectation was just too big.

ramzey

hazed- · « **Reply #8 on:** July 18, 2003, 06:03:16 AM »

Initially i thought great idea. the fee isnt that bad when you consider we do need to keep the number of them down and if you have a squad of say 20 people $100 is only $5 each.

Id pay $5 to join a squad if its run like a true historical squad.

Then i saw batz post and realised i too would want to be able to fly with all the skins on my hardrive and i changed my mind !

doh!

so now im unsure, the idea is workable but it will seem a bit unfair on players who never join a squad. Then again it will make being in a squad more desirable.

Historical squadron colours but seperate squadron 'markings' maybe? Its a tricky one.

I know personally i dont want to see aircraft flying around i colours or markings ive never seen before in WW2.

I dont mind maybe a different colour rudder fin or nose cowl maybe but i dont want to see 'year 2003 desert scheme p51d' flying around either. Please dont make a p51 with a modern day scheme either!

Squire · « **Reply #9 on:** July 18, 2003, 07:27:12 AM »

"the 466th ninja butterfly rainbow squad"

LOL

Anyways, I think that most squads will be able to get a skin submitted thats close to what they are looking for, wether its on their FE only or not. Its going to generate a lot of interest, thats for certain.

We need a Sea Hurricane now for an 880 Sqn skin Pyro!

Midnight · « **Reply #10 on:** July 18, 2003, 09:26:56 AM »

Batz, I think you are missing one of the things Pyro said, which is that the new skins will be how the OTHER players see you as well. So a squad skin would be seen by all the other players.

Ack-Ack, the reason I am suggesting the $$$ for this implementation is so that HTC wouldn't be flooded with dozens of skins every day. So many squads come and go in AH all the time. Having a submission fee should reduce the number of submissions to squads that really are interested in having a custom skin, and not just some 2-week trial group that's here today and gone tomorrow.

Part of the reason for wanting this for for identification purposes. It's one thing to see a large group of planes, it's another to know they are all in the same squad. I think this would really hold true in cases of engaging the enemy, where you would be able to tell if the 5 Mustangs in the area are a squad, or just happen to be a bunch of Mustangs in the same place. And I would like to know when I come up against large squads like AKs or MAWs or something. It let's you know that you need to be on your toes a little bit more.

AcId · « **Reply #11 on:** July 18, 2003, 10:47:37 AM »

Don't count yer chickens before they've hatched....

Quoted from Pyro's last post:
there are some technical issues regarding others seeing your skin choice that HT has not yet had a chance to look into so he's not yet certain to what extent the system can be implemented

At this point the level of implementation is all speculation, HTC will implement as much as they can, without ruining the game.....give them some credit.

gatso · « **Reply #12 on:** July 18, 2003, 10:52:14 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Squire
We need a Sea Hurricane now for an 880 Sqn skin Pyro!

Like This?

Gatso

TheFox · « **Reply #13 on:** July 18, 2003, 12:43:31 PM »

or this

http://bryanallman.digimig.co.uk/photo.php?o=1&id=814503

OK - it's not a skin, but it is a real Sea Hurricane !

Batz · « **Reply #14 on:** July 18, 2003, 12:50:38 PM »

Midnight the only way it is "seen by others" is if its forced to be downloaded onto their hd.

Thats my point, why should we be obligated to download the potentially hundreds of squad skins onto my hd that have no use for me?

I think thats the point behind pyro saying that:

Quote

We can't allow everybody a custom skin. Such a system could balloon into hundreds of thousands of skins that everybody has to download and store. It's in no way comparable to the current squad art system.

Pyro didnt say it was a deffinate on "everyone else seeing your skin" heres what he said,

Quote

The goal of the system is to make it so that each player's skin selection dictates how everybody in the arena sees him, not how he sees everyone else. However, there are some technical issues regarding others seeing your skin choice that HT has not yet had a chance to look into so he's not yet certain to what extent the system can be implemented. If the above goal can't be met, then you'll see a system where your skin selection just affects what you see. We'll let you know when he gets there.

As I said dont force me to dl hundreds of useless squad skins. If HT cant impliment a system where each players skin selection is seen by everyone and is only to be able to get it where you only see your skin (whatever skin you choose every p51 you see will have it) then who cares, no one out side of those in your squad who have that skin selected will see it.

Those of you who say how great personal squad skins will be, if we are forced to dl these the size of the ah dl will sky rocket. Look at the number of squads in ah imagine all wanting their own "skin". It just unrealistic to expect that.

Every skin thats available should be available to all. This why historically skins should be the ideal. If you choose to make one of the "historical" skins for your squads "uniform" thats fine but others will be able to use that skin as well.

Pyro also said

Quote

When I say markings based on squadron, I'm talking about actual WWII squadrons, not AH squadrons. This is not about having custom markings. Skins are not submitted for a person or squadron's private use. Forget the word "custom", that's not what this is. What it is is the ability of a player to add another skin option to a particular plane that EVERYBODY can use. The purpose of submitting a skin is for everybody to use it. If that is not why someone is submitting a skin, then they shouldn't submit one. Period.

As I said, there is a criteria that must be met for us to admit a user submission. Basically, it must be something that we would add to the game ourselves. A skin may not be added for many reasons- quality, historical accuracy, redundancy, adherance to standards, usefulness, sensibility, and representation(i.e. a pink polka-dotted B-24 might be historically accurate as one did exist, but it is not representative of B-24s as it is a unique eccentric specimen nor is it useful and would not be a paint scheme that we would use). We'll talk about all of that when we get there.

The real feature here is that each plane can have a selection of skins that a player can use. The ability of a player to make and submit skins for online use is not the feature, it is the mechanism by which the real feature can be usefully implemented(I'm talking from our point of view, it is very much a feature to the skin making enthusiast, but realistically it's probably generous to say that 1 in 100 players fit that description). If we had unlimited art resources, the latter part would be unneccessary. But that is not the case and while we would like to have multiple skins for each plane, our resources are best spent in adding new models and improving existing ones rather than adding more skins. This is the means to facilitate a win-win situation between everyone who wants more skins and those who want to make them.

Its all perfectly clear and makes 100% sense.