Author Topic: recession ended Nov. 2001  (Read 1015 times)

Offline Eagler

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if those numbers are right
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2003, 09:11:15 AM »
what's truly sad is 50% of the pop make less than 28k a year

what's worse is that someone making over 55k, is in the top 25%  :)
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Offline JBA

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recession ended Nov. 2001
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2003, 10:27:57 AM »
Remember this is for a household. In most cases TWO INCOMES.

That is to say if you make 45K your wife makes 35K your in the top 25%.  Through in a kid or two in college and your screwed

Can you honestly say they are rich?
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Offline Eagler

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recession ended Nov. 2001
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2003, 10:56:36 AM »
heck, you dont even have to throw in college just a couple of kids, cars and a mortage - tryin to keep everything running and everyone healthy ... oh yeah, livin high on the hog :rolleyes:

the dems and their buddies in the media tryin to create a class envy against the average joe ...
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Offline midnight Target

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recession ended Nov. 2001
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2003, 12:28:54 PM »
70k barely keeps a family of 4 above the water line nowadays.

As to the recession ending.... duh! We had our best year EVER in 2002.

Offline Scootter

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« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2003, 01:02:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by JBA
On October 24 of last year the Joint Economic Committee released the latest IRS data for 2000. Here’s the table:
> Top 1%: Adjusted Gross Income of more than $313,469 pays 37.42 percent of all income tax collected
> Top 5%: $128,336 pays 56.47 percent
> Top 10%: $92,144, pays 67.33 percent
> Top 25%: $55,225 pays 84.01 percent
> Top 50%: $27,682, pays 96.09 percent
> Bottom 50%: less than $27,682 pays a mere 3.91 percent
For the press release with those numbers: http://www.house.gov/jec/press/2002/10-24-02.htm
For six pages of detailed IRS tables, in PDF format: http://www.house.gov/jec/press/2002/irs2.pdf

SO WHO SHOULD GET THE TAX CUTS?


let me get this right

Top 1%=37.42%
Top 5% =  56.47%
Top 10%= 67.33%
Top 25%= 84.01%
Top 50%= 96.09%

Total percent paid by these groups = 341.32% of the nations income tax?? ahh help me here, how can this be more then 100%?    (damn over acheavers)

And how come I dont feel like a top 5% kinda guy?

Offline Zippatuh

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« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2003, 01:11:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
the dems and their buddies in the media tryin to create a class envy against the average joe ...


That’s exactly what I was thinking.

Scooter, total is 100%, difference is one minus the other for the indivdual precentage.  It looks like its placed as a "position" in the total amount of taxes taken in by someone with X amount of household income.

The top 50% of the nation pays out 96.09% of all the taxes leaving the other 50% to bring in the 3.01% for the total of 100%.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2003, 01:14:30 PM by Zippatuh »

Offline Frogm4n

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« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2003, 01:14:55 PM »
you have to add all the percentages. ITs done this way to scew the numbers. The fact is a dividends tax cut only benefits those who make most of their income on stocks. Do any of you guys makeing around 55k benefit from suck a cut? People that dont work that sit on wealth will benefit. Rich kids and the like. Is it fair that they dont have to pay for the war but the people that work for a living do?

http://home.rochester.rr.com/jerryfisher/thiv26.gif

and if you dont believe we have a problem with class's in this country just look at who is president.

Offline Scootter

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« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2003, 01:15:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Frogm4n
listen i think tax cuts are good as well. but we should first give the largest tax cuts to the people that need it and will spend it. the middle class. sorry if i care about people that cant afford their car payments.
SOrry your right we should first give all the tax cuts to the people with 3 cars in every garage and already have everything they need that sure sounds like the right thing to do to me. They didnt accumulate their wealth by using any governement help like roads police or military protection so they should have the least amount of taxes.





When you cant afford something, don't have it,  its that simple.  Do you want me to feel sorry for someone who buys stuff they can't afford?
This kind of thinking is wrong, if you want to give away what you worked hard for to make you feel better fine do it, just don't ask or expect me to.

Tax cuts are just that,  if you pay more your cut as a percentage will be more You will still be paying a crap load more then someone who makes less.

You must not be in a position where you are expecting to add to you wealth in the near future and have no problem gust getting by. I have built up my business and my wife has worked hard on her career to build up our position in life and really did it buy not going in debt or buying things we could not afford. We worked hard for our money and don't want to give away any more then necessary. Some day I hope you get to the same place in life that you want to keep what you worked hard for.


Ya I figured out that the chart is a running total, it seemed strange at first blush. I really think what the libs want is a grant to the poor from the ritch and get all confused with the tax cut thing.

Robin Hood  was a big time Lib, but remember they did say he STOLE from the ritch at least it was an honest reporting.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2003, 01:23:34 PM by Scootter »

Offline Frogm4n

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« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2003, 01:21:52 PM »
actually i am set to collect on a nice little sum of money that i didnt work for. My family went from paying 30 percent of its taxes  to 3 percent under bush. The shortfall has to be made up somewhere and you know the government it sure the hell wont come from budget cuts.
The reason i would rather see people with less money with more is because i would rather see a healthy society. Having low crime and crazy people off the streets is a public good in my eyes. If you have all the money in the world what does it matter if you have to live in a gated community, riots in the streets, and massive amounts of homeless in the country you live in. Thats why us liberals care about these people. It isnt because we feel for them its just that we are as selfish as the conservitives and dont like gated communitys.

Offline Scootter

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« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2003, 01:30:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Frogm4n
actually i am set to collect on a nice little sum of money that i didnt work for. My family went from paying 30 percent of its taxes  to 3 percent under bush. The shortfall has to be made up somewhere and you know the government it sure the hell wont come from budget cuts.
The reason i would rather see people with less money with more is because i would rather see a healthy society. Having low crime and crazy people off the streets is a public good in my eyes. If you have all the money in the world what does it matter if you have to live in a gated community, riots in the streets, and massive amounts of homeless in the country you live in. Thats why us liberals care about these people. It isnt because we feel for them its just that we are as selfish as the conservitives and dont like gated communitys.


Perfect point, you will get some of the money that you will probabley invest or spend (when you invest you allow others to spend it so same thing) this is good for all of us. Someone in your fam. earned that money in the first place. It is not a gift to you from the Gov. when your taxs are lowered you get some of your own money back, it was yours to start with.

Just how the hell do you think what you propose will stop crime of riots in the streets.

Rodney King was awarded millons from his law suit and was still a hood and was arested several times. Crooks and thugs with more money in there pockets are still crooks and thugs, they just have nicer cars.

It was tried as communision and it changed nothing still had classes still had crime still had revalutions.

Do you really think if all the money was spread out evenly with everyone living in the same type of home driving the same type of car this utopia would exist? You still have those that want to have without effort and those who will work harder for just a bit more, dude we are people not hampsters.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2003, 01:35:43 PM by Scootter »

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2003, 01:34:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Frogm4n
actually i am set to collect on a nice little sum of money that i didnt work for. My family went from paying 30 percent of its taxes  to 3 percent under bush. The shortfall has to be made up somewhere and you know the government it sure the hell wont come from budget cuts.
The reason i would rather see people with less money with more is because i would rather see a healthy society. Having low crime and crazy people off the streets is a public good in my eyes. If you have all the money in the world what does it matter if you have to live in a gated community, riots in the streets, and massive amounts of homeless in the country you live in. Thats why us liberals care about these people. It isnt because we feel for them its just that we are as selfish as the conservitives and dont like gated communitys.


get the feelin you haven't been in the work force more than 10 years = < 28 years old

talk to me when you are over 40 - those rose colored glasses will be in the trash by then....

ps - conservative and don't live anywhere near a gated community - can't afford to - though have nothing against them .. nothing like watching the value of your homestead go to pot as the rentals in the hood park cars in their yards instead of mowing em..
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Offline Scootter

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« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2003, 01:40:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
get the feelin you haven't been in the work force more than 10 years = < 28 years old

talk to me when you are over 40 - those rose colored glasses will be in the trash by then....

ps - conservative and don't live anywhere near a gated community - can't afford to - though have nothing against them .. nothing like watching the value of your homestead go to pot as the rentals in the hood park cars in their yards instead of mowing em..



Funny I was thinking the same thing, I'm 41 my wife is 45, I think I had the rose colored glasses when I was 18 or 20 also (was going to make the world a better place and all that). When I was a kid I hoped that a Hurricane would come as that seemed so cool. Now I own a house and an airplane and really dread this season, funny how as you get older things change and reality sets in. When I was younger I was fearless, now I have fears.

Offline Zippatuh

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« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2003, 02:23:06 PM »
I think I started realizing the world was different when I saw Dennis Miller doing his monolog just after one of his children was born.  My eyes were wide and my jaw open as I heard him say it.

It was all about walls and building them as high as you can.  He never thought he would have come to that until he saw something on the tube while holding his baby.  Build them tall and wide he said,  give up on the rest.  You can’t help them so help yourself.

The wall of course was metaphoric for making as much scratch as you can to try and stay as “safe” as you can.

I’m mixing cement as we speak :).

Offline JBA

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« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2003, 02:33:55 PM »
About the Rich. Here is a compelling statement, made by one of the biggest Libs you can find.

Congressman Patrick Kennedy, D-RI (Rhode Island for those of you in public schools) recently declared to fellow members at a Washington nightspot, “I don’t need Bush’s tax cut, I’ve never worked a day in my life”

A number of other rich people, i.e. Warren Buffet, have at various times likewise declared that they do not need what are called “tax cuts for the rich”. But whatever political points such rhetoric may score, it confuses issues that are long overdue to be clarified.

One of the most basic confusions is between income and wealth. You can have high income and low wealth or vice versa. We have all heard of athletes and entertainers who have earned millions, that ended up broke.

There are also people of relatively modest incomes who have saved and invested enough over the years to leave surprisingly large amounts of wealth to their heirs.

Income tax cuts apply to income, not wealth. So the fact that some rich people say they don’t need a tax cut means nothing because they are not getting a tax cut on their wealth, since their wealth is not being taxed anyway.

Looked at differently, high tax rates hit people who are currently earning high incomes- usually late in life, after having worked their way up in their professions over a period of decades. Such as myself.

Genuinely rich people who have never had to work a day in their lives –people like Kennedy- are unaffected by income taxes except on what they are currently earning, which may be a tiny fraction of what they own.

In other words, soak-the-rich tax rates do not, in fact, soak the rich.

Someone who eventually works his way up to $100,000 a year will qualify as “rich” in liberal rhetoric, but by the time you reach that level you may have a few kids, college tuition, mortgage etc. You’re not exactly buying yachts.

Another fundamental confusion over tax rates with reduction in tax revenues collected by the government.

One of the enduring political myths of our generation has been the claim that the rise in deficits during the 1980s resulted from President Reagan’s “tax cuts for the rich.”

Tax rates were cut. Tax revenues were not.

More tax revenues were collected during every year of the two Reagan administrations than had ever been collected in any previous year in the history of the country. Nor was this experience unique.

When President Kennedy cut tax rates during the 1960s, tax revenues went up. The whole point was –and is- to encourage more economic activity and more activity generates more tax revenues, even at lower rates.

The same thing happened back in the 1920s.

Why, then, were there federal deficits during the Reagan administration? Because Congress spent even more money the then rising tax revenues brought in.

There is no amount of money that congress cannot out spend.

Although these were christened “the Reagan deficits,” all spending bills originate in the House of Representatives- and Reagan was never a member of congress. Indeed, the Republicans never controlled the House of Representatives during the Reagan Years.

Only after the Republican party gained control of the house in 1994 were there budget surpluses-for which president Clinton took credit, even though he too, had never been a member of Congress.

It is fascinating to see congressional Democrats, who have for decades been spending the country into growing deficits, suddenly expressing shock at the current deficits that have occurred while President Bush is in the White House- and the country is at war.

How serious are these deficits? As with all debts the burden depends on what your income is. As a percentage of national income, today’s deficits and national debts are far below what they were when Democrats were spending. In fact they are 3% of the GDP. The national average is around 5% and during the 1940s we were at 45%.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2003, 03:01:14 PM by JBA »
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Offline mietla

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« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2003, 02:45:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Scootter
Robin Hood  was a big time Lib, but remember they did say he STOLE from the ritch at least it was an honest reporting.


Actually, you got it backwards. Robin Hood stole from tax collectors (and rich rulling class who lived supported by taxes unjustly collected from working people) and returned the money to the overtaxed people.

He was a tax-cutter not tax-and-spender.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2003, 02:55:44 PM by mietla »