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Author Topic: F14=Ensign Eliminator  (Read 835 times)

Offline davidpt40

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F14=Ensign Eliminator
« on: July 18, 2003, 09:52:26 PM »
Just heard on history channel that 19 F-14s were lost due to uncontrolled spins after compressor stalls.  This was before the GE engines were installed in 1984.

Thats alot of F-14s.  So what was the problem?  Did both engines tend to flame out at the same time or did the yaw from a single flame-out throw the F14 into a spin?
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Offline Dago

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F14=Ensign Eliminator
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2003, 10:02:57 PM »
They didnt mention anyone dieing in the incidents now did they?  So why would you say "Ensign Eliminator"?   I suspect most of those incidents were in flight test and training.  I hope you are aware that the aircraft have a very capable ejection seat system, and it is doubtful that even one pilot was lost in the spins.  Nobody spins a jet close to the ground, nor would they do anything that might precipitate a spin at low altitude.

Who cares why the engines would flame out, they replaced them with better engines.
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Offline Bodhi

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F14=Ensign Eliminator
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2003, 10:26:32 PM »
I was more saddened to hear that the total number of F-14's sold to the Iranians during the late '70's was 79.  That in itself was saddening considering nearly an 1/8th of all F-14's ever produced are languishing in a desert hell (a few probably in Soviet hands back then too)

Well, so be it...
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Offline Sandman

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Re: F14=Ensign Eliminator
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2003, 10:29:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by davidpt40
Just heard on history channel that 19 F-14s were lost due to uncontrolled spins after compressor stalls.  This was before the GE engines were installed in 1984.

Thats alot of F-14s.  So what was the problem?  Did both engines tend to flame out at the same time or did the yaw from a single flame-out throw the F14 into a spin?


Problem? Take a good look at that aircraft. If one engie goes out, asymetric thrust can be a huge problem.
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sand

Offline Fishu

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F14=Ensign Eliminator
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2003, 02:30:41 AM »
Sandman,

F14 has the engines quite close to each other though..

But if one engine flames out, this close proximity might not be good if there isnt sufficient firewalls and systems...
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Offline davidpt40

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F14=Ensign Eliminator
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2003, 02:59:13 AM »
Quote
They didnt mention anyone dieing in the incidents now did they? So why would you say "Ensign Eliminator"? I suspect most of those incidents were in flight test and training. I hope you are aware that the aircraft have a very capable ejection seat system, and it is doubtful that even one pilot was lost in the spins. Nobody spins a jet close to the ground, nor would they do anything that might precipitate a spin at low altitude.

Who cares why the engines would flame out, they replaced them with better engines.



Your joking right?  I can think of 3 right off the top of my head.  

(1) Prototype F14- Test pilot killed

(2) That woman pilot.  Left engine stalled while she was making a landing.  Her RIO ejected first, she ejected into the water and died.

(3)  Nashville Tn.  F14 pilot takes off and does a few maneuver because his parents are watching.  Engine stalls and both pilot/rio are killed.
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Offline Staga

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F14=Ensign Eliminator
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2003, 03:29:51 AM »
Fishu IIRC these two engined planes are having pretty good protective walls between engines for turbine failures etc.
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Offline Fishu

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F14=Ensign Eliminator
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2003, 04:03:25 AM »
Staga,

Like said.. "IF" :D
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Offline Sandman

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F14=Ensign Eliminator
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2003, 09:52:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fishu
Sandman,

F14 has the engines quite close to each other though..

But if one engine flames out, this close proximity might not be good if there isnt sufficient firewalls and systems...



Go take a good look at an F15 or F18 and then go look at the Tomcat. There is a huge amount of space in there.




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Offline LePaul

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F14=Ensign Eliminator
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2003, 10:44:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by davidpt40
(3)  Nashville Tn.  F14 pilot takes off and does a few maneuver because his parents are watching.  Engine stalls and both pilot/rio are killed.


I don't think that is right....or perhaps Im thinking of another incident involving an F-14 showing off....he went thru clouds, got disoriented and augered.

I could be wrong, but recall one such incident like that
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Offline Dnil

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F14=Ensign Eliminator
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2003, 12:24:06 PM »
yea i remember the TN one.  The finally put in the spin software not long after that incident.  The plane was basically unrecoverable in a flat spin.  Not all F-14s now days have the new engines, although most do.
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Offline Furious

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F14=Ensign Eliminator
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2003, 04:02:21 PM »
What about Goose?  He died due to flat spin.
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Offline Smut

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F14=Ensign Eliminator
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2003, 05:50:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Furious
What about Goose?  He died due to flat spin.


That is actually one of the few things that movie got right...apparently the canopy tends to "hang" around the airframe due to aero forces, and the backseat usually hits it on the way out. Several RIO's have been lost this way IRL.

The old TF-30 engine in the F-14A had it's share of problems, but the F110 engine in the B and D models has also had problems resulting in lost airframes and crew. Stuff happens.

Lepaul, my memory of that TN mishap is the same as yours. I'm going on travel in a few hours, so I don't have time to look it up to be sure.

-Smut
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Offline LePaul

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F14=Ensign Eliminator
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2003, 09:06:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Smut

Lepaul, my memory of that TN mishap is the same as yours. I'm going on travel in a few hours, so I don't have time to look it up to be sure.

-Smut


Thanks for checking...maybe I am thinking of something else, but I do recall a real unfortunate crash where the pilot was hot shotting, went through the cloud, came back, disoriented and wrecked killing both as both families watched  :(
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Offline Sikboy

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F14=Ensign Eliminator
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2003, 10:11:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Furious
What about Goose?  He died due to flat spin.


Damnit! lol.  That's the first thing I thought of too :)

I need to keep up better lol.

-Sik
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