Author Topic: Hey Beetle (Read 1322 times)

culero · « **Reply #30 on:** July 19, 2003, 07:48:56 PM »

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Originally posted by Nashwan
snip
The crime epidemic in Britain consists of burglary, mugging and car crime. To tackle it, they should send burgulars muggers and car thieves to prison.

Or, perhaps, allow honest citizens the right to be armed and defend their lives and property?

culero (what a concept!)

Nashwan · « **Reply #31 on:** July 19, 2003, 08:05:04 PM »

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Or, perhaps, allow honest citizens the right to be armed and defend their lives and property?

How do you make guns easily available to honest people, without criminals getting hold of them as well?

Pass a law saying they can't have them? They're criminals, they break laws.

If I can freely buy a gun, so can a criminal. If you have background checks, the criminal can get a friend to buy one, or I can buy guns and make money by selling them to people who can't buy them through legit channels.

British gun laws tackle supply.

It always seems bizarre to me that Americans seem to think making it illegal for criminals to have guns will work, when by their very nature criminals ignore the laws anyway.

If you don't target supply, criminals will use guns.

culero · « **Reply #32 on:** July 19, 2003, 08:17:44 PM »

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Originally posted by Nashwan
If you don't target supply, criminals will use guns.

How many people die each year because bad drivers can get cars as easily as good drivers?

Would you restrict the rights of good drivers in order to control the bad drivers?

culero

SOB · « **Reply #33 on:** July 19, 2003, 08:19:19 PM »

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Originally posted by Nashwan
It always seems bizarre to me that Americans seem to think making it illegal for criminals to have guns will work, when by their very nature criminals ignore the laws anyway.

I don't think that. Does that mean I'm not American?

SOB

Nashwan · « **Reply #34 on:** July 19, 2003, 08:57:26 PM »

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How many people die each year because bad drivers can get cars as easily as good drivers?

Would you restrict the rights of good drivers in order to control the bad drivers?

Yes. I'd have mandatory registration of cars, so they can be easy to trace if used in crime/accident.

I'd require any change of ownership of a car to be registered, so if one is used in a crime/accident, you can't just say "Oh, I sold/lost it last week"

I'd require all drivers to pass a test to show they are fit to drive a car.

Britain does all that for cars and guns, I believe America also does the same for cars.

beet1e · « **Reply #35 on:** July 20, 2003, 03:41:06 AM »

SOB - way off topic. This thread was started by Gman to discuss the forthcoming gun amnesty in Britain. That has now happened, and at 10:39am yesterday, I wrote my first post in this thread to comment on the results of that amnesty, and on our government policy controlling firearms. Nashwan has added some useful input.

So then Steve takes the thread off topic by turning into a "knowledge of the US" pissing contest. And like the good sheep that you are, you followed by getting into a discussion of growing up in the US versus visiting. All very much off topic.

No-one needs to have grown up/lived in OR visited the US to understand that there are many thousands of firearms related homicides every year - 300,000 in the last 25 years - any more than one would have to have lived in Iraq to know that Saddam was a brutal dictator. Governments provide stats. There's nothing more to it. I don't need US citizenship to understand stats, thank you very much. In my initial post in this thread, the only time I referred to the US was to touch on points made by American gun owners in other discussions - like the fact that many of the homicides are gang/drug related.

So I don't know what your problem is.

SOB, you are like a hypodermic needle. You're very sharp, but you're also a big salamander.

Fatty · « **Reply #36 on:** July 20, 2003, 11:59:25 AM »

With the time you'd spent on this topic alone I'd think you'd know that firearm legislation is a state matter. Taking that into account, a more accurate statistic would be to compare the dozen or so total homicides (firearm related or not) in one of the most gun lax states like Wyoming and compare that to UK.

Given your interpretation of statistics UK should get rid of gun control altogether, but most of us know there is more to it than that and haven't told you how to handle your crime.

Next you'll tell us we should be using interstate rail for travel because it works in UK, ignoring a ten-fold population density discrepancy.

Stringer · « **Reply #37 on:** July 20, 2003, 12:01:47 PM »

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Originally posted by beet1e
And you're a bit of a dickhead to boot.

Hmmm...isn't there a sticky at the top of the O'Club about this...

Stringer · « **Reply #38 on:** July 20, 2003, 12:02:34 PM »

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Originally posted by beet1e

SOB, you are like a hypodermic needle. You're very sharp, but you're also a big salamander.

And this........

Unless this is what passes for witty retorts in UK.

beet1e · « **Reply #39 on:** July 20, 2003, 01:33:16 PM »

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Originally posted by Stringer
And this........

Unless this is what passes for witty retorts in UK.

Indeed - kind of like the dental "jokes" against the UK that get trotted out here. I don't see you complaining about those. And I have taken worse insults on this BBS than anything you can quote of me - I don't see you rallying to my defence on that either.

Fatty. I have never said that the US should abolish gun ownership. Never. I may have drawn attention to homicide stats in light of the firearms free-for-all that exists in the US, and pointed out what I believe to be the folly of such a policy.

Anyway, you're still not getting it. I repeat - my initial post in this thread was to comment on the UK firearms amnesty. I might have mentioned observations about the US that have been brought to my attention by others, but that is all.

As for Wyoming, it wouldn't be surprising if it had a low gun crime rate. I don't have bang up to date data, but my 1998 Rand McNally US road atlas indicates that Wyoming has a population of around 455,000 (smallest population of any state in the US) and that no WY city has a population bigger than 100,000. I've passed through Cheyenne, overnighted at Rock Springs on I-80, and did a load of hiking in the Tetons based at Jackson. Didn't see any evidence of any drug/gang no-go areas/ghettos in my travels. I felt safe there, even without a gun.

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Taking that into account, a more accurate statistic would be to compare the dozen or so total homicides (firearm related or not) in one of the most gun lax states like Wyoming and compare that to UK.

Erm, no... because as Dowding has pointed out, the UK has a population of 58 million - more than 125 times the number of people living in Wyoming, in a land area that is actually smaller. So much for your accurate comparisons.

If WY has a dozen murders a year, then the murder rate per 100,000 population (the stat that governments use) is actually higher than that of the UK. Suck on that for a while.

:D

Steve · « **Reply #40 on:** July 20, 2003, 01:36:13 PM »

Gee Beet1e, I hadn't considered our tete-e-tete a pissing contest.... interesting.

beet1e · « **Reply #41 on:** July 20, 2003, 01:39:31 PM »

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Originally posted by Steve
Gee Beet1e, I hadn't considered our tete-e-tete a pissing contest.... interesting.

I think you mean "tête à tête" - check with straffo!

But OK. We digressed into a knowledge of the US discussion. Not necessary.

SOB · « **Reply #42 on:** July 20, 2003, 01:42:37 PM »

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Originally posted by beet1e
Thank you, Dowding. What Fatty said bears out what I said in an earlier post. Many Americans (though by no means all) have no clue about the world beyond the county they live in.

Well, actually, this is what dragged us off topic but who's counting? By pointing out your ignorance, I've obviously upset you, and for that I apologize. When it's flaunted, I just can't resist the temptation to point it out...that's one of my failings. I'll try to stick to the topic from now on.

SOB

beet1e · « **Reply #43 on:** July 20, 2003, 01:55:13 PM »

SOB - it's OK. I don't even know how we got started, but it doesn't matter now.