190A vs SpitVB

[JAWS2003]

Hm then how much is the B17 doing?

[Batz]

Looks like no FW is able to get more then 250 Mph at 30k. Hm... how did they shot down so many Bombers if in AH they can't even catch a Lanc at 30k.

bs look up the big week scores a5s and a8s were running down b17s left and right.

I killed 10 b17s in 2 passes at 29k.

We had guys killing jugs p38s and p51bs at that alt.

you arent going to climb to 30k to catch umm as they fly by but they wont get away if your co-alt. As you climb up to catch a buff a smart pilot will go slightly nose down to create seperation.

You are just plane 'ole wrong on this one.

[JAWS2003]

The only reason I got into this discution is that i want to be able to use the A model FW"s for what it was made, to intercept bombers. How many times do you see Antons going to intercept High alt bomber missions at HQ?

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by JAWS2003
The only reason I got into this discution is that i want to be able to use the A model FW"s for what it was made, to intercept bombers. How many times do you see Antons going to intercept High alt bomber missions at HQ?

Not that the Antons(except A-9) could not get to 30k but after ~20K they were running out of  steam'.

[Batz]

You  need to buy a book on the 190 it wasnt a high alt inteceptor and not every "a" was to kill bombers. You are just wrong.

above 22k the a8 has been spent. The only way to intercept bombers is set up at a point along their flight path and wait.

You are talking about climbing to intercept and if you check the a8s and a5s climb rate above 22k you will see its pathetic.

The only way you will get them is to be co-alt or higher. Also planes in ah dont need to fly at cruise settings and in formation. They fly full throttle the whole time.

If you want to intercept bombers at 30k by climbing then get a g10. If you want to get them in a 190a set up along their path so you will be near or at co-alt.

Also all bombers werent at 30k in rl. B24s flew lower then the b17s for the most part and bombers were "stacked" and the lw mostly attacked the lower groups.

[frank3]

I recall europe missions with either B-17's and B-24's were flown at about 20.000ft

[JAWS2003]

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/spit.html
http://www.luftwaffe.cz/viermot.html

[JAWS2003]

Originally posted by Batz
You  need to buy a book on the 190 it wasnt a high alt inteceptor and not every "a" was to kill bombers. You are just wrong.

above 22k the a8 has been spent. The only way to intercept bombers is set up at a point along their flight path and wait.

You are talking about climbing to intercept and if you check the a8s and a5s climb rate above 22k you will see its pathetic.

The only way you will get them is to be co-alt or higher. Also planes in ah dont need to fly at cruise settings and in formation. They fly full throttle the whole time.

If you want to intercept bombers at 30k by climbing then get a g10. If you want to get them in a 190a set up along their path so you will be near or at co-alt.

Also all bombers werent at 30k in rl. B24s flew lower then the b17s for the most part and bombers were "stacked" and the lw mostly attacked the lower groups.

I know it was not made to fight at high alt, but in shooting down bombers it did better then the 109's.

[Batz]

?

You were saying you could not intercept a 30k lanc, not that you couldnt kill bombers.

109s killed bombers fine but they were better interceptors and excort planes.

What made the 190 a better choice was more guns and better protection.

" My Staffel was in position about 1,000yd behind 'its' squadron of bombers.The Staffel leader ordered his aircraft into line abreast and, still in close formation, we advanced on the bombers. We were to advance like Frederick the Great's infantrymen, holding our fire until we could see 'the whites of the enemy's eyes'.''

 The tactics of the Sturmgruppe were governed by the performance of the wing-mounted 3cm cannon. Although the hexogen high-explosive ammunition fired by this weapon was devastatingly effective, the gun's relatively low muzzle velocity meant that its accuracy fell off rapidly with range . With only 55 rounds per gun, sufficient for about five seconds' firing, the Sturmböcke could not afford to waste ammunition in wild shooting from long range. The sky was alive with a withering hail of defensive fire from the bombers. As the unwieldy fighters slowly advanced on the bombers, the Sturmbock pilots could only grit their teeth until they were right up close against the bombers. The huge bulk of the radial engine and the heavy armour plate around the cockpit allowed the Sturm force to press on with a certain impunity, as Hagenath remembers

" like the armoured knights in the Middle Ages, we were well protected . A Staffel might lose one or two aircraft during the advance, but the rest continued relentlessly on ."

 Positioned now about 100yd behind the bombers  the Staffel leader barked out the order to open fire

' Pauke ! Pauke ! ..'.

From such a range the Staffel could hardly miss, and the 3cm explosive rounds struck home . Just 2 rounds could take the tail off a B-17 , and a B-24's fuselage structure was not as sturdy.  The enemy bombers literally fell apart in front of the Sturmgruppe.

The above was at 22k, the "unwieldy fighters" that "slowly advanced on the bombers" were a8s.

[JAWS2003]

you mean like this?

[Batz]

7800m is just under 26000ft.

in fb theres no high alt fm past 10000m

[GScholz]

How convinient for the Russian planes.

[palef]

Originally posted by Batz
?

You were saying you could not intercept a 30k lanc, not that you couldnt kill bombers.

 

As far as I know the service ceiling of a Lancaster was in the low 20k range when loaded. Most Lanc missions were flown at night and at about 18k.

palef