Author Topic: Church and State  (Read 1076 times)

Offline Rude

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Church and State
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2003, 04:49:41 PM »
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
and religion in this country today is nothing but the establishment. they run their church's like companys.


Sadly, you are correct. These very religions are who Jesus himself, hated the most.

Offline Leslie

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« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2003, 06:55:24 AM »
Poor choice of words Rude.  Respectfully.

Jesus didn't hate.

Offline Charon

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« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2003, 08:46:50 AM »
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I do recall one news item from several months back, where a school bus driver was fired for leading a prayer on the bus. She filed suit because of the dismissal, and I suppose the case is pending. Haven't heard anything about it lately. In this case however, she asked the parents in advance by mailed letters, if they were OK with the prayer. Every one of them said yes, please do this. Every single one of the students wanted this also.

So this would seem to be an instance where everyone wanted this, and the school became unconstitutionally involved by denying prayer. Though the federal courts directed no mandate directly, it seems like some school principals are totally confused, and thus, to avoid confrontation of any kind, they broad-brush the issue by denying what, here, amounted to a unanimous concensus of the participating citizens. Sorta like a zero tolerance policy.


Of course, we have to assume that all the parents and all the children were for this 100 percent. And then, what about the new kid on the bus? If you were the only student on the bus who didn't want to pray to Jesus Christ (since we can assume with probably 100 percent accuracy that this was Christian prayer, and most likely evangelical) how easy would it be to resist, particularly in High School? Or, how easy would it be to have the child converted to "the one true religion," by daily, public indoctrination?

I believe, actually, that most serious Christians on the path of saving souls want prayer in school for the benefit of those not saved, vs their children who are already in the fold. A chance to show others the "light" and establish Christian solidarity. Just my opinion, but I do come from a family of Southern Baptists. Also, my half-sister in Tennessee found it hard to resist even the non-school related social pressures of her Christian community and "found" Jesus through not wanting to be an outsider. I know for a fact it wasn’t because of some deep inner discovery.

However, what if it was a Muslim prayer or a Jewish prayer that your child would have to sit through every morning? Some mandatory Tora readings? Kneeling towards Mecca at the appropriate times? A sacrifice of goat’s blood to Baul?

What if your son or daughter was one of a handful of "religious minority" students and because of his/her obvious refusal to participate in the group behavior became the target of scorn? What if one day she or he decided that she'd rather convert, because all her friends are pushing her, and it's just easier to get along and it probably wouldn't be that big of a deal anyway? Or, hell, Wicca is actually pretty cool and a lot more exciting than following that Jesus fellow your parents push on you at home!

I imagine you would rather not have your child face that pressure every day, and would think that was an improper use of school time. But when you're part of the majority, the individual rights of others are never that important.

Charon

Offline Leslie

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Church and State
« Reply #33 on: August 18, 2003, 09:10:48 AM »
Wicca?   That's dangerous territory.  Have you ever used a Ouija board?  When I was going to Christian school, they said ouija boards were occult ways to call up or communicate with ghosts.  And you know, stupid as this may seem, I believe it.

It scared me ****less.  And I never experiemented with ouija boards again, especially after watching "Thirteen Ghosts"  (old movie)

;)





Les

Offline Charon

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« Reply #34 on: August 18, 2003, 11:10:57 AM »
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Wicca? That's dangerous territory. Have you ever used a Ouija board? When I was going to Christian school, they said ouija boards were occult ways to call up or communicate with ghosts. And you know, stupid as this may seem, I believe it.

It scared me ****less. And I never experiemented with ouija boards again, especially after watching "Thirteen Ghosts" (old movie)

Les


I'm not an expert, but I think Wicca is actually old school paganism (fire earth water, earth goddess, etc.) and not Satanism or the occult. Someone who does know could probably explain the differences.

I tend to be an agnostic, secular humanist, but as part of that I accept the possibility that a spirit world might exist. God may exist, Jesus may have actually been the son of god, the devil and ghosts may exist -- maybe not. I've played with Ouija Boards in the past, and they can be surprisingly accurate. I would tend to think it is the subconcious actions of those participating that lead to the answers, but who knows :) One of those things that keeps life, books, movies and televison a bit more interesting.

Charon

Offline Leslie

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Church and State
« Reply #35 on: August 18, 2003, 11:27:24 AM »
God bless you Charon.   That was heavy, but cool.  Whatever you think or do, know that God is by your side and will never let you down.  I guarantee it, because I'm a bad sinner, and God has plans for me.   He has protected me in some very bad situations.  To pray, all you have to do is say please God, help me through this.  It counts, even though it might not be "official.":D



Les

Offline fd ski

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Church and State
« Reply #36 on: August 18, 2003, 11:39:55 AM »
i wonder how quickly some of you would get your panties in a bunch if your kids were told in school to roll out the carpet, face and east and pray to allah for a difference...

Offline Leslie

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« Reply #37 on: August 18, 2003, 12:14:29 PM »
Fd Ski, are you a Russian?  Fd Ski doesn't believe in God!!!

He's probably a Russian Jew.  Those are good people, the best on the Earth.  Wish I knew more of them.



Les