Author Topic: "Operation Gomorrha"  (Read 1836 times)

Offline StSanta

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"Operation Gomorrha"
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2003, 04:54:31 AM »
Action A is bad.
Action B is even worse.

Actor C takes action A.
Actor D takes action B.

Observer Z notes that actor C is as bad as actor D.
Observer Y counters that actor D is clearly worse than actor C, and implies that the actions of actor C weren't bad after all since Action B was so much worse.

Funny. :)

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2003, 12:17:25 PM »
How pathetic. It's one thing to remember a tragedy of war and the innocent victims of it and quite another to attempt to use it as a Nazi apologist "The Allies were just as bad if not worse" tactic. There be true morons here.

Offline StSanta

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« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2003, 07:42:16 AM »
Arlo that defense is as you suggest logically flawed. However there are two variants of it:

'the Germans weren't so bad after all - just look at all the slaughtering the allieds did!"

and

"the allies were pure saints compared to the nazis - look at all the slaughtering they did!"

Both are erroneous.

The facts are simple. The Nazis have a horrible record. The Soviets have one that is very bad. The US/UK have a relatively good one, except when it comes to the bombing of civilians. Even there precision bombing was the order of the day (at least in theory) for the Americans.

Offline threedays

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"Operation Gomorrha"
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2003, 11:45:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by StSanta
Action A is bad.
Action B is even worse.

Actor C takes action A.
Actor D takes action B.

Observer Z notes that actor C is as bad as actor D.
Observer Y counters that actor D is clearly worse than actor C, and implies that the actions of actor C weren't bad after all since Action B was so much worse.

Funny. :)


hehe exactly ... and thats called magic circle :D
and happen things like 1 freedom country bringing freedom to other freedom country...... and people are dieing in name of freedom and only one way out is to bring THEM freedom

:D
« Last Edit: July 27, 2003, 11:48:34 AM by threedays »

Offline Dowding

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"Operation Gomorrha"
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2003, 12:56:23 PM »
This is the deal Santa - I DO believe the Allies were pure saints compared to the Nazis. The Nazis kicked off an aggressive war of conquest and enslavement and genocide. They killed 6 million people directly and systematically and millions more civilians due to enslavement and through conflict with the Soviet Union. So it gets on my tits when people try to paint the Allies with the same bloody brush, understand? Yes the Allies did bad things, yes, civilians died - but compared to the blood on German hands its a drop in the ocean.

"The Allies were just as bad as the Germans" is apologist BS of the highest degree.

That's all I have to say on this subject. ;)

And BTW, the Americans also area bombed in Germany, in addition to the firebombing of Tokyo.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2003, 12:59:36 PM by Dowding »
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline threedays

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« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2003, 01:15:46 PM »
yeah yeah yeah  and enola guy brough freedom to millions of japs... yeah yeah .. no blood, just freedom and saint ideas

Offline Pooh21

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« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2003, 01:45:03 PM »
Still would have been nice if Harris ended his days in 1945, dancing his way to hell at the end of a short rope. I live in Hamburg, My wife is from Hamburg. Our Grandmother had to run 2 miles to the Alster on the night of the firestorm to avoid being burnt alive. Doing more research this past week, I found that the bombers on that raid flew right over where my house is, A lanc crashed not a kilometer from here( and boy do I hope the crew managed to bail and float down into the inferno,instead of quickly riding it in) My house is on a top edge of the Firestorm area. There was a picture of my street in the Hamburger Abendblatt yesterday, nothing but burnt out shells. When they were doing plumbing work a couple of years ago, they had an 8foot deep hole dug in front walk in front of the apartments I live. The hole was filled with blackened old bricks the whole way down. On my way to work everyday I pass where the firestorm started. 35,000 people died in the area I live in one night, I wonder how many in my basement, and if they were the lucky ones who were carbon monoxcided. 35,000 thats 7+x the WTC. Old people, women and children mostly.  They survivors spoke of whirlwinds of flame, hurricane force winds sucking people into buildings. blizzards of sparks, a sound like an organ of hell. Infernal heat everywhere, asphalt roads melting and people being trapped in the molten asphalt.  Around 40,000 people died totl during the bombing raids that week. Less then 1% were from the 8th AF.  I don't fly lancs in AH anymore.
Bis endlich der Fiend am Boden liegt.
Bis Bishland bis Bishland bis Bishland wird besiegt!

Offline Dowding

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« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2003, 02:43:27 PM »
I spent Saturday afternoon helping out a veteran of those raids. I'm of the same opinion as him on the matter of justification.

Quote
I don't fly lancs in AH anymore.


But you still fly LW planes like the FW-190 or 109? Planes that were hopping over the channel to drop bombs on sleepy little English seaside villages before strafing the local church?

How about the Ju-88? Used to bomb London to bits or Warsaw or Stalingrad?

How about the Stuka? Still on your 'active' list? Used to bomb the crap out of anything and everything from Poland onwards including the strafing of refugee columns in France.

Your moral justifications for flying or not flying a particular plane are entirely your perogative...
« Last Edit: July 27, 2003, 02:49:59 PM by Dowding »
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline nopoop

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"Operation Gomorrha"
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2003, 03:12:41 PM »
Ahh...I was going to post but I can usually only stand 10 minutes of reading the tripe in the "geopolitical"  posts in here..

It never changes..

..but fortunately my 10 minutes is up.

Carry on..

..as I know you will.
nopoop

It's ALL about the fight.in a brew...

Offline ccvi

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"Operation Gomorrha"
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2003, 03:22:34 PM »
40k died? Of 1500k? Now that's really really bad efficiency. Better luck next time.

Offline straffo

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« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2003, 03:32:43 PM »
What is your position about the V2 ?

Deadly and undetectable at this time ... and aimed at civilian.

The only thing that protected civilian was the progression of allied troops in Germany.


Instead of trying to determine who was acting the worst between the Allied and the Axis why don't you speak about more consensual subject like food ,beer or girls ?

Your discution won't end and you will end throwing mud at each other.

Offline Mathman

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« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2003, 04:46:07 PM »
I guess this is not a good thread in which to start singing Johnny Cash songs, is it?

Offline Dowding

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« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2003, 05:20:27 PM »
lol Gscholz :D If I ever get to Norway, you'll be providing all the prey - I've seen those Norwegian girls and they look very similar to Swedish ones. ;)

This discussion is as pointless as ever, of course.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Replicant

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« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2003, 05:30:15 PM »
The sad thing is that there are some people out there that wished Nazi Germany hadn't been defeated.

Can anyone compare anything to what the Nazi's did?  I mean the Gestapo even killed their own.
NEXX

Offline nopoop

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"Operation Gomorrha"
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2003, 07:19:10 PM »
On a side note, I did eat my young..

Found out even though they were very small you still have to spit the bones out..
nopoop

It's ALL about the fight.in a brew...