Bomber Suggestions

[B17Skull12]

i like the bomber's the way they are today i just riped a spit14 to peices in only a few second's it was funny. nadi  have fun augering after being shot down by 1 and hint use the 110 to incept bomber's work's veryy well try escaping 2 30mm's and like 6 20mm's not easy.


skull12

[Karnak]

Originally posted by ccvi
A little know fact is that gunner positions on bombers can be killed individually in AH. The problem is that they're so tough that a few hits more blows the whole bomber up. I think it's possible to kill 2 of them at maximum before the buff goes boom.

Neg.  I've lost all five guns on my Ki-67s on more than one occasion, had all three guns on the Lanc taken out and lost more than three guns on the B-17 on several occasions.  I remember killing a Bf109E with just the right waist gun on my Ki-67 because he'd killed all four of the other gunners.

My experience with the Lanc and Ki-67 is if the fighter fires and gets more than a light sprackle of hits the tail gun dies almost every time.  B-17G's guns seem quite a bit tougher.

[SELECTOR]

The 109 was a poor bomber interceptor... lacking firepower.
I actually think the B17 for example is too weak in AH.. Though the lanc maybe abit too tough...

when would you see lancs during the day?

[BGBMAW]

I haven't really done research on it, but it seems like bombers would be more likely to go down for these reasons in no particular order:

lolo
 i wish we had a gong in here..like the gong show...


GONGGGGGGGGGG

[BenDover]

Originally posted by Weavling
Seems a little wierd that the gunners in AH can hit something up to nearly 2000 yards away with a Machine Gun

I can tell you that buff guns only reach 1.9k, with a big drop after 1.6k!

[WhiteHawk]

Originally posted by Weavling
Ok, so maybe a 109 is a bad example.  And actually, I was in a B-17 box, against about 5 or 6 fighters.  I downed 4 of them with reletive ease, before reinforcements came, and it took many shots for them to down me.  Bombers almost seem to be a better antifighter weapon per person than fighters them selves, that is if the enemy is willing to engage.  A 4 kill sortie isn't usually the easist to come by in a fighter, unless you against newbs.  It's almost regular in a box of B-17s.  

 

C'mon weavling.  I've attacked b17 forms with 109f and come out w 2 kills.  You cant saddle up on a buffw .50's in the back.
  4 or 5 fighters hittng a b17 form should be able to kill them all without losing a single plane.  You just have to be smart about when and where to attack.  the bombers are fine how they are.

[ccvi]

Originally posted by Karnak
Neg.  I've lost all five guns on my Ki-67s on more than one occasion, had all three guns on the Lanc taken out and lost more than three guns on the B-17 on several occasions.  I remember killing a Bf109E with just the right waist gun on my Ki-67 because he'd killed all four of the other gunners.

My experience with the Lanc and Ki-67 is if the fighter fires and gets more than a light sprackle of hits the tail gun dies almost every time.  B-17G's guns seem quite a bit tougher.

I can't remember the last time I attacked a Ki-67. Maybe it's settings are a bit more real than the b17's ones.

[ccvi]

Oh, and while we're at losing parts...

Did anyone ever lose only a half horizontal stabilizer? I think there's an entry for each left and right in the list, but the always seem to die both at once.

[BenDover]

I've lost one once, but about a second later the other fell off aswell...............most likely lag.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Weavling
Ok, so maybe a 109 is a bad example.  And actually, I was in a B-17 box, against about 5 or 6 fighters.  I downed 4 of them with reletive ease, before reinforcements came, and it took many shots for them to down me.  Bombers almost seem to be a better antifighter weapon per person than fighters them selves, that is if the enemy is willing to engage.  A 4 kill sortie isn't usually the easist to come by in a fighter, unless you against newbs.  It's almost regular in a box of B-17s.  

Also, about the crew situation.  If you're in the tail gunner spot, and the tail gunner is hit, the tail gun simply does not work anymore, you don't blow up.  2nd, in RL, you could be shooting the bomber from behind and still wreak havoc to those in front.  The bombers had no outer armor, thus bullets go right in, and can strike those in front.  So far I've only been able to get a pilot kill on a buff if I go head on with'em.  

I don't want to nerf the Buffs completely, I think it's just lame how you can totally spray a B-17, and it will fly on with no damage at all.  I nailed a B-17 with my Hispanos in my Hurc IIC.  I must have got 8 hits on his left wing, 4 hits on the underbelly(which is where the bombs should be, and he was on his way to the target), and 5 hits on the right wing.  Nothing at all was wrong with that B-17, and he continued to fly along.  I didn't persue since my Hurc wouldn't keep up.  LOL.

If you are having a tough time in taking down bomber formations, it's possible that you have to rethink the tactics you're using to engage the bombers.

I fly the P-38 pretty much exclusively and not that I'm a great pilot or anything but I have absolutely no troubles in successfully engaging bomber formations solo.  The key is how you engage them.  Coming in at a dead six o'clock position is obviously not a very good idea, especially against bombers like the B-17 or Ki-67.  Doing it this way is just asking for a quick trip back to the tower.  At least for me, the best way to engage a bomber formation (or even a single bomber) is to come in from above and dive at a steep angle, aiming your plane between the top turret and the cockpit.  This will make it harder for the bomber formation's guns to track you properly.  This will also put you in a position that when you get within gun range and fire, you're rounds will usually land in the area between the wing root and the cockpit.  If your fighter has big enough guns, this usually results in either blowing the bomber up outright or taking off one of its wings on your first pass.  After you make your pass, dive through the formation and extend past gun range, pull up into a steep climb and then reverse and re-engage until all the bombers are gone.  If done right, it will only take 2-3 passes to kill the formation and usually you'll only receive a ping or two for the trouble.  It is also very important to keep your speed up and never let it get below 300mph when you are making your attack runs.

This tactic has worked great for me but as with most things in life, YMMV.


ack-ack

[JB73]

Originally posted by BenDover
I can tell you that buff guns only reach 1.9k, with a big drop after 1.6k!

oh come on you dont believe that do you?


i have been rippen in half @ D2.0k before by many a b26 / 17 gunner.

when you get those sputnik dweebs to HQ at 35k the guns go even farther. i lost a 163 @ 34k from 2.7k out. b17 took off both wings.


im suprised noone mentions that all the guns fire in non dispersing patterens together, like lasers. IIRC the books i read about in real life the gunners were almost never all shooting @ 1 enemy.

i never got to play AW but IMHO the idea of haveing 6 people join your bomber as gunners each firing independently is the way it should be.

another thing. so many of the buff pilots have learned that by using rudder to turn while fighting can bring more guns firing on the target. again IRL the pilot wasnt manuevering around to get a better shot on the bogies. he was trying to stay on course and level to give the gunners a stable shooting platform.

these are all considerations we make playing a game though i guess.

oh well my 2¢

[ccvi]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
At least for me, the best way to engage a bomber formation (or even a single bomber) is to come in from above and dive at a steep angle, aiming your plane between the top turret and the cockpit.

How do you do that with bombers at 30-35k?

[muckmaw]

Learn how to attack bombers properly and you'll survive with kills.

In the first 3 seconds I see a fighter approaching my group, I know if the pilot is any good. Most, and I mean 75-90% will appraoch me at slow closure from dead six.

Know why it's called "Dead six"?

I let these guys creep in, thinking I'm not watching, and get to right where all 6 50 cals are converging. If my aim is true, a 3 sec. blast will kill anything.

Now, what does a smart fighter jock do when attacking bombers? Well, I'm not telling you, but he does not approach from dead six.

Buffs are fine. Our gig is tough enough. Learn  how to win and you won't need HT to program your problems away.

[muckmaw]

Originally posted by JB73
another thing. so many of the buff pilots have learned that by using rudder to turn while fighting can bring more guns firing on the target. again IRL the pilot wasnt manuevering around to get a better shot on the bogies. he was trying to stay on course and level to give the gunners a stable shooting platform.

Actually you are mistaken.

A good friend of mine was a B-17 pilot in the ETO during WWII.

They did the very thing you said they did not. Though they had to hold formation, and there was no maneuvering on the bomb run, they did minor corrections to give gunners a shot.

Tell you what. Set it up so that I'm flying a box with 159 other bombers, with full gunners on each, plus escort and we'll talk about nerfing the bombers. Until then, keep the "Selective Realism" in check.

[chunder']

Originally posted by ccvi
How do you do that with bombers at 30-35k?

P-38 flies and fights just fine at 40k