Author Topic: Tiger Stats for the CT for July 1st to Pres. (Read 1034 times)

CurtissP-6EHawk · « **on:** July 27, 2003, 01:29:57 PM »

The Tiger 1 has 522 Kills and 143 Deaths.

The Tiger I has 209 kills and has been killed 60 times against the Bishops in the Panzer IV H.

Does the Tiger have a place in the CT?

brady · « **Reply #1 on:** July 27, 2003, 02:01:57 PM »

Of course it does, as much place as the Huge Ordance loads that allied planes cariy in any set up it is included in.

Tiger's can easly be killed by droping a bomb on them, you just nead to know how to do it.

CurtissP-6EHawk · « **Reply #2 on:** July 27, 2003, 02:20:47 PM »

So while several Tigers are already on the field or inbound it takes how many bombers how long to depart, grab alt and drop bombs on these Tigers. If they miss, well...these guys are here to furball while a few Tiger drivers are nearly invincible.

So it takes Aircraft to Kill a Tiger....that doesn't make it "Balanced" GV Vs GV now does it?

Telstar · « **Reply #3 on:** July 27, 2003, 03:12:20 PM »

so how come i them damn panzers keep killing my tiger ???

It wasnt just once either, it happened several times last week, and not only to me, does that mean the panzer should be removed too because it's a threat to the so called --invincable-- Tiger ?

CurtissP-6EHawk · « **Reply #4 on:** July 27, 2003, 03:13:50 PM »

Tiger vs

Panzer......209 Kills,...60 Deaths
Ship Gun.......1 Kill,.....37 Deaths
Typhoon......53 Kills,...25 Deaths
A-20G..........37 Kills,...10 Deaths

C-47..............3 Kills, 0 Deaths
Unknown......11 Kills, 1 Death
B-26...............9 Kills, 1 Death
Spit V...........34 Kills, 1 Death
Spit IX..........50 Kills, 4 Deaths
M16..............38 Kills, 0 Deaths
M3.................2 Kills, 0 Deaths
Ostwind........1 Kill, 0 Deaths
Lancaster.....5 Kills, 1 Death
PT Boat.........6 Kills, 0 Deaths
P-47D-11.....17 Kills, 2 Deaths
LVTA4...........8 Kills, 0 Deaths
LVTA2..........10 Kills, 0 Deaths
M-8..............10 Kills, 0 Deaths
Hurii IIC.......6 Kills, 0 Deaths
Hurri IID......11 Kills, 1 Death
Boston III.....1 Kill, 0 Deaths

CurtissP-6EHawk · « **Reply #5 on:** July 27, 2003, 03:17:06 PM »

Telstar look at the Panzer vs Tiger stats.

Tiger......209 Kills
Panzer.....60 Kills

Kill/Death ratio, Tigers Three most feared

Ship Guns
Typhoon
A-20

brady · « **Reply #6 on:** July 27, 2003, 03:18:06 PM »

Tigers are included for Historical resion's and are off set by the allied jabo abaility to kill then, any of the allied planes capable of schleping a bomb can kill them, the 37mm gun on the fields can kill them as can the Panzer's, about the only thing the Tigers realy have going for them is that you nead to be a decent shot with a bomb to kill them, or hit them in the side or at close range with the other Tanks/37mm field gun.

CurtissP-6EHawk · « **Reply #7 on:** July 27, 2003, 03:21:45 PM »

Brady I am not arguing that they can not be killed, but how the CT is played.
For gameplay the stats tell us that the Tiger is not balanced.

The same for the N1K2. Due to the way the CT is played, the N1K2 is unbalanced.

Remember the CMs two most favorite words; "Balanced" "Unbalanced" !!

Thats my argument.

Arlo · « **Reply #8 on:** July 27, 2003, 03:30:54 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
Tiger vs Panzer......209 Kills,...60 Deaths

Once saw a player get over over fifty kills spawn camping .... off of one player. I can't hardly believe the player that kept respawning was just that stupid. *ShruG*

Never-the-less (and I know it's a deviation of topic) I always thought it would be an interesting idea to incorporate "fortified" spawnpoints ... either by terrain design (spawning in fortified buildings? caves ... if they're possible?, a steep/small circular hill with the only opening being where the spawning tank faces when it spawns?) or by coding a 20 yd radius around a spawn point where damage cannot be inflicted upon the spawner .... nor could the spawner (or anyone else who enters the circle) fire their weapons. Granted, there could still be spawn campers watching and waiting in ambush .... but at least the spawning player can look around and perhaps position to at least slug it out (or, seeing the point surrounded by a half dozen Tigers, opt out of leaving the circle of protection and spawn elsewhere).

Ok .... I'm done with my mini-hijack.

brady · « **Reply #9 on:** July 27, 2003, 03:32:16 PM »

The Stats show a lot of Vulching and people augering into the ground near the Tiger, their is more to a balance question than the kill stats which dont realy show the whole picture.

About the only thing that can be done in any late war set up featuring German vs Allied (not Russian) plane set's is to add the Tiger to offset the Huge Ordance delevery advantage the allies have, now this is also Historical in the since that for the most part allied (western ) armor was not very survivable by comparasion, but it is not a balance issue per say since the Tiger is easly killed by Allied Jabo's, limited in aplication by Spawn points and easly neautralised by killing the single Vehical hangers that fead the atacks.

Now wheather Players excersise the option to kill them or their hangers using a tool/method to do so is up to them, I see guys strafing them all day long with 50cal guns and woundering why it is not working for them, well their is a learning curve in AH and some folks are just starting, then on the oppset end you will see guy's like Widwing who will kill you 9 times outa 10 with his Jabo when your in a Tiger.

This is in part why Stats are kinda BS when it comes to determing a balance question they dont tell you the whole story, and they are easly misenturpeted.

CurtissP-6EHawk · « **Reply #10 on:** July 27, 2003, 04:03:10 PM »

Brady you know as good and well as I do that these guys dont play "Stratagy".

Once again, how many guys does it take to kill a Tiger? I have seen three Tigers keep 20 guys bzy. I am not arguing agnst you, I am arguing the way the CT is played. When the tide turns and the allies have the advantage, say the F4U vs the A6M5 well, then the IJN guys squeak like a damn sailer and get the F4U removed. Historicly if it belongs, then let it stay but look how it is being used and simply adjust the availability.

brady · « **Reply #11 on:** July 27, 2003, 04:58:00 PM »

That is typicaly what we do Hawk, I think that were (or I ) am not seeing it the same way you do.

Slash27 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 27, 2003, 09:33:12 PM »

since the Tiger is easly killed by Allied Jabo's, Thats a stretch.

Estes · « **Reply #13 on:** July 27, 2003, 09:42:25 PM »

I agree slash, I generally ignore the tigers and panzers and go for the easy kills (flaks, m16's, m3s) but when I do, I never seem to be able to do more than detrack a tiger.

brady · « **Reply #14 on:** July 27, 2003, 09:45:44 PM »

"Thats a stretch", It is easly killed by people who know how to do it, hear in lies the rub, do we asume that the allied players are unskilled greenhorns who cant hit a thing (my self included, since I fly allied as well on ocashion) and remove the Tiger since we cant posably expect them to think to go and kill the VH or learn how to dive bomb, that would asking to much, or do we asume that they will rise to the chalange and learn the game and the strengths and weakness of the units they fly aganst and use their heads if they want to. When pulled out the context of a set up any one unit could look on paper to be out of balance but when viewed withen that context aganst all the other planes/GV's in that set up we find in this case it is not out of balance, unless of course your kinda stuck on that issue:)

It should also be noted that this is not a perfect science, while we strive for competative and fair plane set's thier are always things that never stack up nore should their be, The Allies will always have More Bomb's and The Hispano, and the 50 cal, the Axis will have the Tiger (the Russians will to), and Blue Planes will always be out turned by the Empire (except the Wildcat of course), these are given's and add as much to imershion as the paint jobs and the planes themself's.