Heil Intolerance

[Gunthr]

some of the polygamist groups n Utah have been trying to get their marriages recognised for a hundred years or so. if we refuse to expand our view on marriage to take in what these people want it to mean, then why should the gays get special treatment? - Capt. Apathy

I don't believe that gays should get special treatment in any area, including the marriage issue.

But laws are subject to change. If Utah ever gets a majority of people who want polygamist marriages allowed, Utah could enact laws that allow it.

In the gay marriage issue, individual states can apparently do the same thing. However, it looks like the gays are making this a national issue, which would lead one to believe that they base thier arguments on constitutional rights.

Your argument about precedents is not applicable here. In law, "precedent" has a special meaning that refers to legal decisions made by the courts. Enacting a law defining marriage does not create a "legal precedent." Laws can and do change.

My argument is that just based on logic, I think lawyers can argue that gays are entitled to the institution of marriage by virtue of being a human being and an American.

It is a scary thought for people, ...  it sounds like gays are taking over. If you are against gays being allowed to marry, the best thing you can do is support attorneys and lawmakers who will argue against it.

But I still haven't seen a logical legal argument here against gay marriage that might stand up in a legal argument. Remember, lawyers tend to leave religion and God out of the equation.

These are some wild times to live... might be a good idea to buckle in






*BTW ... I'd hate to work that detail for a living too!  That was only an assignment... thank goodness.

[Maniac]

I think lesbians should be allowed to get married if they are attractive.

Fatty!!

Im sure you meant the other way around, ugly lesbians should be allowed to get married and not attractive ones right?

[Mighty1]

Gays are mentally ill and should be treated as such.

Tolerated maybe, Pitied absolutley but never excepted as normal.

They should never hold political office nor have ANY position that allows them to interact with children.

[Toad]

Originally posted by AVRO1
Well then the legislative branch would be imposing there morality.

Really? I thought they were fulfilling their duties to their constituents in a republican form of government when they pass a law.

However, again let me point out that the Legislative branch has taken no action on this. So, you're in high dudgeon over nothing at this point.

Originally posted by AVRO1
I am not imposing anything on anyone,

And neither is Bush. You finally see that, do you?

Originally posted by AVRO1 marriage because I think everyone should have the same rights like it says in the constitution

 

I'm not sure marriage is even mentioned in the US Constitution.

Originally posted by AVRO1 I have a problem if they impose a law based on their morality.

Well, you probably have LOTS of problems. Legislative bodies across the globe enact and impose laws based on "their"morality and the "morality" of their constituents.

Just a quick example; there's some places in Canada you can't hunt on Sundays. And that's about the most minor one I can imagine.

Then there's the aforementioned incest example in this thread. There's laws against incest in many if not most nations/states/provinces around the world.

A lot of laws are based on the perceived or expressed "morality" of the voter base. So, you've gots lots and lots of problems around the globe.

[Curval]

Originally posted by Mighty1
Gays are mentally ill and should be treated as such.

Tolerated maybe, Pitied absolutley but never excepted as normal.

They should never hold political office nor have ANY position that allows them to interact with children.

Mentally ill?

So, my friend shouldn't be in any position that allows him to interact with children?

You had better call the state medical board and inform them that the head of pediatrics in their very prestigios hospital is gay and that they should grab their pitchforks and drum him out of there. [[notice I didn't name the place in case one of you try to do so] Oh yea, and burn all his books on the subject of child abuse, which he has worked his entire life to combat.

What about friends of gays?  Where should I turn myself in?

[Rude]

Originally posted by AVRO1
You have the right to believe what you want.
But you dont have the right to tell others that something is wrong because your religion says it is.

If Bush passes is law then you are in effect telling other religions who dont have a problem with gay unions that they are wrong.
Freedom of religion is in your constitution.

What gives POTUS the right to decide for others what is right and what is wrong according to is beliefs?
Can he prove is beliefs are more right then someone else?
No he cant, so he as no morale authority just like every single person on this planet.

So why should he decide what is right and what is wrong?


Just something for you to think about.

Well....the politics of all of this is not what I was speaking of....what I shared is only Rude's belief.

I suppose the world you speak of would have no judgements made by anyone....who among us would have the authority to deem rules or laws fair and just.

Let's live in a world of anything goes....that would work I'm sure.

[MrLars]

Originally posted by Mighty1
Gays are mentally ill and should be treated as such.

Tolerated maybe, Pitied absolutley but never excepted as normal.

They should never hold political office nor have ANY position that allows them to interact with children.

...and intollerant bigots should be....should be....hmm, can't think of any punishment fitting.

How 'bout, forced to watch Streisand and Bette Midler flicks 24/7 while being forceed to drink various fruity wine coolers in glasses with umbrellas.....and a daily enema of baking soda and vinegar.

There!

[Rude]

Originally posted by Curval
Rude,

By your definition God will judge all of us and in that judgement we will either go to heaven or hell.

So, lets take a murderer who has raped and mutilated a number of his victims.  He gets caught and goes to jail.  In jail he finds Christ.

Judgement day comes.

My friend, who has devoted his life to helping people and who has saved thousands of children from abusive parents goes to hell because during his life he committed acts of sexual pleasure with another man.

But, the murderer who found Christ at the last second goes to heaven.

If THAT is what your version of God is like I will not buy into it.

Apathy...Sabre tried that silliness with pedophilia etc. already.  He has been responded to adequately already, there is nothing more I can add to the points already made.

Curv....

Salvation has nothing to do with what sin is committed, but rather the recognition of that sin, the confession of it and the belief in your heart that God loved us enough to give his Son as the propitiation for ALL sin.

So in other words, your friends sin is no worse than that of mine....the difference is that I recognize mine and confess it unto forgiveness.

This is not my religion...it was not born and written by Rude. It is simply Gods written word as delivered through the Bible. Take a moment if you care and read Romans in the new testament...then post back your thoughts....I would be interested as to your take on what you've read.

As to homosexuality, I just believe it's a sin and is wrong....no one here has to agree with me, it's simply my personal belief.

[Saurdaukar]

Originally posted by MrLars
...and intollerant bigots should be....should be....hmm, can't think of any punishment fitting.

How 'bout, forced to watch Streisand and Bette Midler flicks 24/7 while being forceed to drink various fruity wine coolers in glasses with umbrellas.....and a daily enema of baking soda and vinegar.

There!

Originally posted by Saurdaukar
I dont mean to make an example, but I cant help to notice that the 'Cavemen Conservatives' are making constructive arguments explaining their viewpoint and the 'Enlightened Liberals' are basically retorting with variations of "Youre dumb!"

[Curval]

Rude, I'll take a look at Romans and let you know.  Problem is I don't read Arameic, which I believe was the ancient language which the original was written.  So, I'll have to settle for The King James version of the bible.

I really don't like taking a book that has been translated thousands of times and trying to discern what the author was trying to say.  It is kind of like that game where kids sit around a table and one kid tells the kid next to them a quick one line story.  That child then tells the person next to them, and so on.  By the time the story reaches the last kid, who reveals what they have heard, the story is unrecognisable from the original.  

I would also have a hard time basing my entire life upon such a book.  Not because I don't like the bible or religion, but because it was written (and translated) by the most prone things to error...humans.

[capt. apathy]

Gays are mentally ill and should be treated as such.

Tolerated maybe, Pitied absolutley but never excepted as normal.

They should never hold political office nor have ANY position that allows them to interact with children.

mentally ill,  you might be onto something there.  interesting way to look at it.  if they truly expect us to believe thhat this is an abnormal behavior that they are born with and not a lifestyle choice, then I guess you could call it a mental defect.


but on the issue of 'no political office or any contact with children'.  my God man, don't you think thats a bit over the top.  it's just one issue in their lives, and our courts have a long enough list of 'straight' people we need to keep away from kids, with out worrying about this.   please tell me the last bit was a troll.

[Rude]

Originally posted by Curval
Rude, I'll take a look at Romans and let you know.  Problem is I don't read Arameic, which I believe was the ancient language which the original was written.  So, I'll have to settle for The King James version of the bible.

I really don't like taking a book that has been translated thousands of times and trying to discern what the author was trying to say.  It is kind of like that game where kids sit around a table and one kid tells the kid next to them a quick one line story.  That child then tells the person next to them, and so on.  By the time the story reaches the last kid, who reveals what they have heard, the story is unrecognisable from the original.  

I would also have a hard time basing my entire life upon such a book.  Not because I don't like the bible or religion, but because it was written (and translated) by the most prone things to error...humans.

Well...it wasn't written by Dr. Suess...this is God we're talkin about here:)

"In the biginning was the Word, and the Word was God" I just don't believe that the confusion you speak of applies to God's word. Still, I understand your concern.

Try this as you begin to read....disconnect your intellect and bias....wait for a witness deep inside of you as to what is really the truth...be honest with yourself:) It's hard to see when your eyes are closed by pre-concieved notions.

Lookin forward to your take!

[Wanker]

disconnect your intellect

This is precisely what faith-based thinking requires, and is something which I patently refuse to do.

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by Mighty1
Gays are mentally ill and should be treated as such.

Tolerated maybe, Pitied absolutley but never excepted as normal.

They should never hold political office nor have ANY position that allows them to interact with children.

This is why we need laws to protect certain groups.

[Curval]

Saur...are you suggesting that what Mighty1 said was a "constructive argument"?  Surely you jest? MrLars was obviously being facetious in his response.