Author Topic: I'm bored so... Plane or Pilot? (Read 2632 times)

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #45 on:** August 04, 2003, 03:41:31 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Zanth
If someone is in an IL2 and a La7 comes along, God himself could be at the controls but that LA7 is likely going to kill the IL2. Unless the LA7 it a complete idiot (granted there is a 50/50 chance of that).

So of course it is the plane.

That bf109G-6 pilot I shot down last night in an IL2 might disagree that it's the plane.

But if you're going to use an example to prove your point, you should use a fighter vs. fighter matchup and not an attack plane not designed for dogfighting vs. fighter.

Maybe someone should post that film of Drex in a Ju88 shooting down 6 fighters. That should pretty much end the arguement.

Ack-Ack

Dux · « **Reply #46 on:** August 04, 2003, 04:10:26 PM »

You guys sure do like simple answers.

WldThing · « **Reply #47 on:** August 04, 2003, 04:21:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Maybe someone should post that film of Drex in a Ju88 shooting down 6 fighters. That should pretty much end the arguement.

6 fighters? I havent heard of this one, the only movie i know of Drex in a Ju88 is when he fought Tac.. And it looked mighty fine

SlapShot · « **Reply #48 on:** August 04, 2003, 04:32:24 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by WldThing
6 fighters? I havent heard of this one, the only movie i know of Drex in a Ju88 is when he fought Tac.. And it looked mighty fine

It's on the BK's website ... Nopoop use to have a link in his sig, but he seems to have removed it.

Lev just published a film of 10 kills in his Spit V ... very good too.

WldThing · « **Reply #49 on:** August 04, 2003, 04:40:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SlapShot
It's on the BK's website ... Nopoop use to have a link in his sig, but he seems to have removed it.

Lev just published a film of 10 kills in his Spit V ... very good too.

Ahh cool

Steve · « **Reply #50 on:** August 04, 2003, 06:01:00 PM »

Well it must be the plane, mostly. My old friend AKAK says I suck,(I think I said he sucks too, but I didn't mean it!) but I had a 20-1 kill ratio against the dreaded spit9 last tour in my pony.
As much as I hear everyone tell me how lousy/mediocre I am, it's definitely got to be the plane.

Steve

Hiya AKAK ol buddy.

Urchin · « **Reply #51 on:** August 04, 2003, 06:04:19 PM »

Alright, I was doing some poking around in the scores. Folks who think the pilot is a bigger factor than the plane, explain this for me.

Granted, this is the beginning of a tour, and not the complete thing, but I think the trend will hold through.

From Tour 39 to Tour 40:

K/D up 60%
K/S up 20%
K/T up 34%
Hit% up 54%

Same pilot, he just switched planes so far this tour. It's easy to tell the variable, since the only plane he's flown this tour is the La-7, according to his stats.

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #52 on:** August 04, 2003, 06:18:25 PM »

The thing you leave out is the pilot's abilities. Is he an average pilot, below average, above average, etc.

ack-ack

Joc · « **Reply #53 on:** August 04, 2003, 06:23:15 PM »

Dont forget the love of a good sheep too.......

Urchin · « **Reply #54 on:** August 04, 2003, 06:36:40 PM »

An average pilot will be average in any plane, an above average pilot would be above average in any plane, true?

Sable · « **Reply #55 on:** August 04, 2003, 06:37:15 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Urchin

Same pilot, he just switched planes so far this tour. It's easy to tell the variable, since the only plane he's flown this tour is the La-7, according to his stats.

I think this is a good example of how important the airplane really is in the arena. With a fast plane like the La-7 (sub P-51D, Tiffie, Yak-9U, Dora, G10 etc) a large pecentage of the aircraft in the arena stop being a threat if you fly conservatively. A 10v10 multi-bogey furball often goes from being a desperate struggle that taxes your SA to being a simple matter of maintaining an E advantage on the 3 enemies in the area who can actually run you down. It seems like field caps that actually work at supressing the fighters always have a high number of fast E-fighters. Without them it's pretty easy for someone to take off in an La-7 (or similar), sneak out from under the cap and come back with a big E advantage to turn the tables.

Karnak · « **Reply #56 on:** August 04, 2003, 08:56:58 PM »

The mistake you "Its the plane" guys are making is that you think us "Its the pilot" guys are saying the plane doesn't matter.

Of course the plane matters. If you take Billy Bob out of his grandpappy's P-40E and stick him in an La-7 all of his numbers will go up because the La-7 is faster (higher K/T and K/D) and still has good guns.

But if Billy Bob, in his new La-7, runs into me (let alone something horrifying like Fester, Lev or Drex) in a Spitfire Mk I he stands a better than even chance of dying despite his vastly better ride.

Tour 42:
Karnak has 4 kills and has been killed 3 times in the Spitfire Mk I against the La-7.

The plane matters, but it is the pilot's skill that is multiplying the plane's effectivenss.

Kweassa · « **Reply #57 on:** August 04, 2003, 09:15:36 PM »

And the mistake "it's the pilot" folks make, is they tend to look at this matter on a very very individual and incidental level - comparing one individual against another single individual, in one engagement.

The chances of one Billy Bob in a La-7 meeting a Karnak, or a Drex or a Levi in a SpitI, is practically nerf, compared to the chances he would meet another Billy Bob.

The mediocre and average, rule the world.

BigMax · « **Reply #58 on:** August 04, 2003, 09:22:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Maybe someone should post that film of Drex in a Ju88 shooting down 6 fighters.Ack-Ack

Crap! I was hoping nobody saw that.... I think one was me.

BigMax · « **Reply #59 on:** August 04, 2003, 09:29:22 PM »

The plane factors heavily into the mix, however, I agree with Urchin that success or failure in a given situation is dictated more by pilot ability and less by airframe.

In WW2, no two were exactly alike yet there were Aces on both sides.... How?!?!? Pilot ability is why.

A P40 in the hands of an ace versus a novice in a LA7... My money's on the Ace. He knows his plane's strengths and weakness, and his enemy's... He will exploit both.