Author Topic: Excellent read Hiroshima/Nagasaki (Read 1166 times)

Yeager · « **on:** August 05, 2003, 08:59:49 AM »

Several fascinating tidbits I had never heard of before and a japanese perspective that A-bombs were a "gift from heaven"...go figure

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/08/05/nyt.kristof/index.html

Ripsnort · « **Reply #1 on:** August 05, 2003, 09:14:21 AM »

Yeager (Sorry for the hijack), you interested in driving down to the West coast Con in October? Get in touch with me if you are...
soupnazi60@yahoo.com

Wanker · « **Reply #2 on:** August 05, 2003, 09:59:08 AM »

A good book to seek out in the library is "The Rising Sun" by John Toland. It chronicles World War 2 from the Japanese perspective, and makes for fascinating reading. The final few chapters are devoted to Hiroshima/Nagasaki, and the behind the scenes fight between those in the Japanese government who wanted peace, and those who wanted to continue the war to the bloody end.

I highly recommend this book, it's very very engrossing.

davidpt40 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 05, 2003, 10:07:52 AM »

Quote

One of the great tales of World War II concerns an American fighter pilot named Marcus McDilda who was shot down on Aug. 8 and brutally interrogated about the atomic bombs. He knew nothing, but under torture he "confessed" that the U.S. had 100 more nuclear weapons and planned to destroy Tokyo "in the next few days."

The Japanese didn't seem to treat allied airmen very friendly.

LePaul · « **Reply #4 on:** August 05, 2003, 10:21:02 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by davidpt40
The Japanese didn't seem to treat allied airmen very friendly.

Ask the fine folks who visited Bataan about their stay...

Its easy to look back now, in our creature comforts and condemn the use of the bomb. But back then, when remember Pearl Harbor was on the mind and knowing how POWs are being treated, etc...I don't think I'd have a lot of empathy for the Japs back then

Frankly, I think we should've hit Tokyo, but they surrendered anyways.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #5 on:** August 05, 2003, 10:39:34 AM »

Nelson Mandela seems to have developed into an ignorant piece of trash...

firbal · « **Reply #6 on:** August 05, 2003, 11:37:41 AM »

Seems Monday morning Quarterback has 20/20 hinsight. The invaion of Japan was going to be bloody. Japan would of lost in the end and would of not survie as anything. They would of been wiped out. So in the end it saved Japan. It was terrible. But onething also was that we saw what the effect of the bombings were. So I think that we were much more restrant in useing those weopons. And I have a selfish reason that I'm glad they were used. My Dad was 17, almost 18 at the time, just finish his training in the Navy. He was on his way in the Pacific when they were dropped. If we had to invade, who knows if my Dad would of survied. He was a sonar operiator. So he would of ended up on a Destoyer in the invaion.

Inferno · « **Reply #7 on:** August 05, 2003, 11:44:35 AM »

Anyone seen the movie Hiroshima?

LePaul · « **Reply #8 on:** August 05, 2003, 11:53:11 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Nelson Mandela seems to have developed into an ignorant piece of trash...

Yea ... thought that too.

But from what I've read, he hasnt done much good in his own backyard either

Udie · « **Reply #9 on:** August 05, 2003, 01:08:04 PM »

It feels unseemly to defend the vaporizing of two cities, events that are regarded in some quarters as among the most monstrous acts of the 20th century. But we owe it to history to appreciate that the greatest tragedy of Hiroshima was not that so many people were incinerated in an instant, but that in a complex and brutal world, the alternatives were worse.

That's a heavy paragraph....

Tarmac · « **Reply #10 on:** August 05, 2003, 01:22:15 PM »

All I have to do is talk to my old neighbor. Major in the Marines, flew Corsairs in WWII. His unit was providing air cover for Operation Olympic. Loss rate was predicted to be 100% for his group.

He'll give you a piece of his mind about the morality of the bomb, and I agree with him totally.

It's war. Nobody takes issue with the bombing of civillians on a smaller scale, for some reason. Even when it's done with hundreds of bombers (firebombings in Tokyo, Dresden, Hamburg), nobody remembers. But when it's done with one bomber, it's all of a sudden it's the worst thing ever.

It had been going on the whole war, people. The US just found a terribly efficient way to do it.

Something else that's not discussed in the article... if the US had waited, the USSR may have participated in or supported the invasion of Japan, and in return been given a piece of the postwar pie, a la East/West Germany. Imagine if the mess in cold war Germany had gone on in North and South Japan.

muckmaw · « **Reply #11 on:** August 05, 2003, 01:30:40 PM »

Very good points Tarmac.

It is interesting to play "What if.." but in the end, we made the right choice.

I don't savor incinerating 100,000 people, but if it saved countless American and Japanese lives, which it did, then the answer is clear.

Oh, Hippies Suck.

Tarmac · « **Reply #12 on:** August 05, 2003, 01:34:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by muckmaw
Very good points Tarmac.

It is interesting to play "What if.." but in the end, we made the right choice.

I don't savor incinerating 100,000 people, but if it saved countless American and Japanese lives, which it did, then the answer is clear.

Oh, Hippies Suck.

Very good points, to you too Muck.

Especially that last one.

DiabloTX · « **Reply #13 on:** August 05, 2003, 02:12:52 PM »

My father told me once that the correct decision in a troubling situation is more often times the hardest choice to make. Its what separates the leaders from the pack. If you go with the easy decision more often than not, its usually the wrong one. One has to wonder what Truman thought all those nights when, in the end, it was his decision to drop the bomb. As for having an example on an abandonded island I think we all know what the Japanese military would have said. In the end its all about one thing; which act will save more lives. And as Tarmac pointed out the killing of civilians in strategic bombing had been going on for years before Hiro and Naga.

In a class I had this Spring, my economics teacher (an expatriated Iranian with a Doctorate in Economics and a comlpete bleeding heart liberal) told me, rather passinately, that dropping the atomic bombs were morally wrong and the US has to accept the result of that decision. I agreed and then pointed out, using books and other documents, what the cost of Operation Olympic would have been in human lives both military and civilian and he just sat there staring. I said "Yes, you are the numbers expert, you do the math and tell what makes more 'economic' sense." He then told me he had never really researched the facts behind the bombings and the expected casualties of both sides for the invasion. Makes you wonder where these people get their opinion.

SaburoS · « **Reply #14 on:** August 05, 2003, 02:16:02 PM »

Had Japan had the A-Bomb and a capable delivery system, they would have used it on the USA, England, and the USSR.
Germany would have used it on England, the USSR, the USA.
England would have used it on Germany, the USSR, and Japan.
The USA would have used it on Germany too if we had the bomb earlier.
THAT'S WAR.