Where did we see the fiercest fighting ever?

[rc51]

the fight in my house for the remote control

[Curval]

1) East Front WWII
2) Pacific Front WWII
3) West Front WWI
4) West Front WWII
5) Korea (American Experience)
6) Vietnam (American Experience)
7) Afgan War (Russian Experience)
8) Gulf War II (American Experience)
9) Falklands (British Experience)
10) Gulf War I (American Experience)

East Front WWII MUST be at the top of the list from what I have read.

Stalingrad?  Kursk?  

I'm not trying to take anything away from the Pacific Front, which is my #2, but from what I have read there isn't any comparison.  Just the sheer numbers involved in the fierce fighting makes it so.

[SirLoin]

Yes but the Russians(or the Germans) weren't even close to the Japanese in fanaticism.

[Curval]

Originally posted by SirLoin
Yes but the Russians(or the Germans) weren't even close to the Japanese in fanaticism.

They made up for that and more in sheer numbers and the fact that it was a war of extermination on a scale never seen in history before...and, thank goodness, since.

Read Anthony Beevor's "Stalingrad" and then decide.

I'd be happy to read any recommendations you might have...always looking for a good read.

[TheManx]

I'd have to say Rorkes Drift in the Zulu wars.

[Replicant]

If the Napoleonic Wars (Peninsula War) were listed I'd go for that.  A musket could only fire 3 rounds a minute and the Baker rifle only 2.  Lines of soldiers just firing at each other, no ducking or moving, just standing taking hits - simply sitting ducks.  Then the dredded Cavalry slicing through columns and rows of soldiers which would then make them go into the defensive box formation (so out wall would only be hit and inner wall would be safe).  This would then allow the enemy artillery to aim at the box and virtually blow the whole lot up!  Medication was crap and many would die through infection.  As Dowding mentioned it also saw the first use of camoflage (wearing green rather than regimental colours - rifle sharpshooter regiments only) and the sharpshooter using rifles (60th Regiment of Foot (5th battlion) and the 95th Regiment of Foot (95th Rifles)).

Rourkes Drift must also be very high; totally amazing how that Welsh regiment defended against such odds.

Of course the question you answered....

1) West Front WWI
2) East Front WWII
3) West Front WWII
4) Pacific Front WWII
5) Korea (American Experience)
6) Vietnam (American Experience)
7) Afghan War (Russian Experience)
8) Falklands (British Experience)
9) Gulf War I (American Experience)
10) Gulf War II (American Experience)

The reason I put Gulf War II in last place is because most deaths have been since the war finished and are similar to counter terrorist skirmishes ala Northern Ireland.

[Sixpence]

Bruce Lee, Enter the dragon

[john9001]

some of you are naming fronts (eastern front), others name battles, (stalinegrad, waterloo) and how do you define "fiercest fighting"? number dead,length of fighting,how hard the fighting was?

ACW saw many new things , percussian cap ( more reliable than flintlock), rifled musket that used the "mini"ball, they loaded as fast as a musket but had the range and accuracy of a rifle, mulitable shot pistols, and some units had brass cartridge weapons near the end,and the gatling gun.

i think it's a hard choice, but a interesting discussion.

[narsus]

http://www.napoleonic-literature.com/WE/Casualties.html

http://www.civilwarhome.com/casualties.htm

http://www.civilwarhome.com/Battles.htm

So what can be seen by this, humans can be a murderously cruel race pretty much, and I am very disappointed that we americans didn't live up to the brutality of the europeans.

Think about what you guys are arguing about and the deaths that are involved. It's like being proud of being from NY or LA because they have the highest gang deaths or something.

Both time periods were bloody as all others listed here, take a moment and reflect on it, and hope it never has to happen again.

[hyena426]

ACW saw many new things , percussian cap ( more reliable than flintlock), rifled musket that used the "mini"ball, they loaded as fast as a musket but had the range and accuracy of a rifle

 thats for sure,,and remmeber the black powdr centerfire rifles made today,,are the most accurate firearms in the world,,knight arms makes a centerfire blackpower gun that is illegal to hunt with in some states because of its accuracy,,black powder burns so evenly over the bullet compared to a cartrage,, more accurate close and long range


acw was ugly just like any war,,,and ranks up with the bloodest fighting in history,,and did send war into another era,, first hand granads were produced in civil war,,and the first ship sunk by a submarine too,,and first battle wagons to fight too,,days of ship to ship fighting would never be the same,,i dont think there is one battle in the civil war that didnt cause mass deaths,,battle of the wilderness was bad,,same with little known battles like wilson creek

[type_char]

1) The American Civil War
2) West Front WW1(trench warfare)
3) East Front WWII (massive front)
4) Pacific Front WWII (fortress europe)
5) West Front WWII
6) Korea (similar to #1 on occasions, just smaller scale)
7) Vietnam (very long campaign)

Dont know enough about the below to comment..
8) Russian Afgan War (CIA was in this war)
9) Gulf War I (lotsa Iraqi died)
10) Gulf War II (ongoing...)
11) Bosnia? (took out Falklands war)

I think civil wars are the most bloody because both sides are situated localy. Then its the technological modern wars.

[Curval]

Originally posted by narsus
[BThink about what you guys are arguing about and the deaths that are involved. It's like being proud of being from NY or LA because they have the highest gang deaths or something. [/B]

It's not arguing, it is called discussing.

When we talk about such things we learn.

Isn't that what the O'Club is all about?

..and while I would agree that the Civil war and Napoleaonic wars were fierce, they weren't on the list.  Nice US vs European jab though re: the casulaty list...clap clap.  No comparing "d*ck size" in those links.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by john9001
some of you are naming fronts (eastern front), others name battles, (stalinegrad, waterloo) and how do you define "fiercest fighting"? number dead,length of fighting,how hard the fighting was?

Exactly!  

Under my completely arbitrary definition of "Fiercest" I'll go with the Battle of the Somme.  And it gives me a chance to toot by countries horn.  


"There were no further advances that year. The autumn rains turned the battlefield into a bog and the offensive staggered to a halt. The line had been moved forward only six miles; the Allies had suffered 600,000 casualties, and 236,000 Germans were killed. Well might the Germans refer to the Battle of the Somme as das Blutbad - the blood bath.

The Somme had cost Canada 24,029 casualties, but it was here that the Canadians confirmed their reputation as hard-hitting shock troops. "The Canadians", wrote Lloyd George, "played a part of such distinction that thenceforward they were marked out as storm troops; for the remainder of the war they were brought along to head the assault in one great battle after another. Whenever the Germans found the Canadian Corps coming into the line they prepared for the worst.""

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by type_char
4) Pacific Front WWII (fortress europe)

It would seem your knowledge in military history is only superseded by your knowledge in geography.

[type_char]

Meant to imply that Europe was mostly an air compaign until Dday, except for S Italy and N Africa but that wasnt part of the original list.