Combat Trim - To Use or Not To Use, That is the Question

[Yeager]

Oh yeah....

Combat trim is like training wheels.  I recommend it to people until they can comprehend what being in/out of trim is/does.

I also recommend people getting a highly programable stick/throttle and putting the trim controls on a hat switch.  Once a person does this, they do not benifit any from combat trim and the flight experience is thoroughly immersive when performed manually.

yeaGER

[Ice]

I would suggest the use of CT for any recruit in AH....It will not be of benefit once your skills have increased.

I found that I can fly the 51 more effectively without it than I can with it...I felt that I got ahead of the aircraft in combat while using it.

If your new to AH and are having probs trimming out, then by all means use it...don't want anyone to get frustrated and leave AH prematurely

Ice

[LJK Raubvogel]

I use CT, unless I need to kick in a little extra elevator to pull out of a dive, etc. It disables as soon as you hit any manual trim key, so no big deal. I love how people think its not realistic because real pilots didnt have it. Real pilots also couldnt climb out on their wings in midflight to bend a trim tab lol. And do you think they flew in dogfights with one hand on the stick, and one hand on a trim wheel?  

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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

[hblair]

Hey! I might not mess with CT, But I admit to being an auto-takeoff dweeb.

I Just click fly and I can be AFK for up to 5 minutes. I can run around the house, quick honeydoo or two, straighten out the kids, take a squat, grab a snack, and be back right as my G10 is hitting 20k.

 

[LJK Raubvogel]

hehe I might have to start using your technique hblair. Took off on a mission in a loaded P-47 last night. Had just gotten to about 2k, when I hear a sound that can only mean one of my kids is about to murder the other. Turned my head to yell a few "calming" words  .Looked back in time to pull up at about 10 ft, stall, spin and auger.  

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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

[Rickenbacker]

 

Originally posted by fscott:
CT is not realistic. The real pilots didn't have it, so I see no need to even play with it.  If Saburo Sakai was able to attain ace status without it, then surely I could do the same.  

fscott

Yes, but the real pilots didn't have autotrim either. And they couldn't go to the bathroom in the air, not to mention go get a beer  .


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        Rickenbacker (Ricken)

                -ISAF-
the Independent Swedish Air Force

[Rickenbacker]

oh yeah, we have padlock now too, don't we. Does _anyone_ actually use that?  


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        Rickenbacker (Ricken)

                -ISAF-
the Independent Swedish Air Force

[Andy Bush]

Don't listen to that Andy Bush guy.

I know for a fact that his w/l record is about 1/82...and the last time he used CT, he tried a Split S and impacted the ground somewhat at the target's six...

:-)

[juzz]

"And do you think they flew in dogfights with one hand on the stick, and one hand on a trim wheel?"

I recall reading a Mustang pilot saying he did just that...

[Toad]

 

Originally posted by juzz:
"And do you think they flew in dogfights with one hand on the stick, and one hand on a trim wheel?"

I recall reading a Mustang pilot saying he did just that...

I'd like to meet him, or someone like him.

Just about everyone I know flies high performance aircraft with one hand on the stick and the other on the throttle/prop controls, particularly when doing ACM type maneuvering.

 

[LJK Raubvogel]

Oh no, Toad, didn't you know that all pilots in WW2 just firewalled the throttle and left it there   [/sarcasm]

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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

[Toad]

Next time I go flying I think I'll put my hands behind my head and do the Macarena!

Should work!

...........did they do the Macarena in WW2? The did didn't they?

 

[54Ed]

I'm not a combat pilot, but I do compete in aerobatics.  No akro pilot that I know fiddles with his trim during a contest sequence. Most of them set the trim up for straight and level flight with comp power, and then leave it there during all maneuvers.  

It is far more important to keep your left hand on the throttle while maneuvering.  Trim is merely a way to reduce the muscular force you must exert on the controls, and to set the plane up for hands-off flight at a given airspeed.  It should not be a factor in ACM.

I'll concede that aerobatics and fighter combat are different. Akro tends to push the low speed corners of the performance envelope a little more than fighter combat, where speed is life.  But it still seems to me that the only sensible way for a fighter pilot to fight would be to set the trim for level flight at combat speed and power, and then leave it alone so he can concentrate on maneuvering and firing.    

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_54Ed
FA Squadron RAF 54th
"Up there the world is divided into bastards and suckers.  Make your choice."

[Daff]

54ED, the trim changes (and subsequent stickforce changes) were sometimes so high in WW2 planes, that a trim change were necessary in order keep the desired attitude.
On the other hand, in aerobatic planes, the aim is to make the stickforces as light as possible. In most of them, you can do any manuever with one hand on the stick, where as in a WW2 plane, you could be exposed to stickforces in excess of 50lbs.
 I've read several accounts, in particular from P-40 and P-51 pilots, where they changed trim during the manuever.
Also, it was the norm to leave the throttle against the firewall.

Daff

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CO, 56th Fighter Group
"This is Yardstick. Follow me"

[Toad]

54Ed has it right.