Author Topic: Am I the only conservative who does not love Bush?  (Read 1361 times)

Offline GtoRA2

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Am I the only conservative who does not love Bush?
« on: August 14, 2003, 11:16:45 AM »
I do not hate the man, but I do not think he is the greatest president either. I think he was the man for the job when 911 happened. I am not sure what Gore would have done, but I am sure it would not have helped much. But I am not going to bash on Dems here.
 
When Bush took office, one of the first things he tried to do was give amnesty to all illegals in the country. I think it may have been all illegals with a legal relative, but regardless, I think that's wrong. Some of you are going to say we need illegal immigration, that they only  do the jobs no one wants. Well, there is truth in that, but it is not the only truth. My dad was a cabinet maker. His shop closed, and when he had to seek work, he could not find any. He was an amazing cabinet maker, but all the shops in the area that where open when he was looking for work, where production shops and didn't need a skilled man with 20 years of custom cabinet work. They wanted illegals, or at least Mexicans cause they didn't have to pay them real money. He ended up in a crappy job, making desktops for cubes.
 
It is not just the jobs we do not want that illegals take, try finding a job in the trades. I do not think the trades where considered "jobs no one wants to do".
Now I am not anti immigration, I think we should allow people from Mexico and south America come here much more easily, screen them for felonies, and let them come in if they have a job lined up. It seems to me, somewhat immoral, to allow people to come here illegally and then exploit them by paying them less then anyone born here would make. It strikes me as odd that this exploitation is fine with the more left leaning people.  Hell my Lib friend last night said "it boils down to how much you want to pay for lettuce." So modify the law and allow for more legal immigration, close the borders and deport the ilegals, would that be so bad?
 Another thing about the border being open, does anyone think the homeland security act will make a damn bit of difference when you can practically walk across the border from Mexico? Hell I am sure terrorist could get weapons in across the border and it seems to me it is just a mater of time.
 
  I am disenchanted, I think politics in this country have become too dirty, I think the politicians on both sides are ultra melons. I really do not think most of them give a **** about us. They care about money deals from special interest groups and or getting reelected and personal power, but not us.
 
 Back to Bush, I see some of the left leaning folks on this board go on and on about how we( conservatives and I guess I am more or less) are not being objective, and that Bush can do no wrong. From my point of view that's wrong, I do not care for Bush that much, for me he was the lesser of two evils. If I had a real choice I would probably vote fore someone else, but, so far everyone else is just worse. They way he handled the first part of the war was good in my view, but I am not sure about how it is going now, it pains me to see soldiers dying every day, I go to sites like Hackworth.com and read some of the things our troops have to put up with and it angers me. Is it Bush's fault, well prolly not, but it is his responsibility to make sure they soldiers there are getting what they need and some are not, including proper leadership.

Why has politics become so adversarial? some of the discussions here and others where I have had them become so heated, it amazes me, aren't we all working to make things better for ourselves and our nation?

 It seems funny to me that we would base who runs our government on issues like abortion. Hell I am pro-choice. I am pro-choice because though I find it morally wrong, I understand that's subjective and would not force my morals on anyone. If there is a God, people who have abortions will pay when they stand before him, that should be good enough for the right, and the choice should be good left, I just find it unbelievable this is such a big issues. People just need to mind their own business. Why is this like one of the 3 issues that makes or brakes a politician?

 I think taxes do not need to be raised I think we could clean up the government and have more then enough money left over to run the government.

I think we should stop fighting the worlds wars, let's bring the troops home and only use them when a real ally is in trouble. Germany unites, tries to take Europe for a third time we should be there :) Other then that let the world sort their own **** out.

Hmm well I think I am done, I wish I could be done with politics, the more I see the more jaded I get, these are the people we elect to lead us and I would not want most as guests in my home, or dating my sister, I would sooner trust a used car salesman... :mad:

Offline Ripsnort

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Am I the only conservative who does not love Bush?
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2003, 11:19:50 AM »
I held my nose at the voting booth but he has surpassed my expectations of him back in the fall of 2000.  He's no Ronald Reagan, but he's no Carter either.. ;)

I think Ashcroft is a scarey individual.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2003, 11:35:42 AM by Ripsnort »

Offline Yeager

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Am I the only conservative who does not love Bush?
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2003, 11:43:02 AM »
The thing that really pissed me off was having Ralph Nader and Al Gore as alternatives.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline Rude

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Am I the only conservative who does not love Bush?
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2003, 11:50:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
The thing that really pissed me off was having Ralph Nader and Al Gore as alternatives.


C'mon Yeag....let's be fair.

Al Gore is a strategerist, while Ralph is one righteous furballer.

Offline LePaul

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Am I the only conservative who does not love Bush?
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2003, 11:51:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rude
C'mon Yeag....let's be fair.

Al Gore is a strategerist, while Ralph is one righteous furballer.


Well you certainly brought the fight down to terms everyone can understand now!

Offline Martlet

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Am I the only conservative who does not love Bush?
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2003, 11:51:58 AM »
I'm a conservative, and I'm pro Bush.  Does that mean I agree with everything he does?  Of course not.  I've never agreed with everything a President did.  It almost killed me to vote for him in the election, but I felt he was better than Gore.  Like Ripsnort, he's done far better than I expected.

Some of what you said I agree with.  I would like to see us stop being the world's policemen.  On the other hand, I really support Bush's hard handed approach.  I support his actions in Afghanistan and Iraq.  I think we should be heavy militarily when it is in our best interest.

I think you see him defended so much by many of the conservatives of the board because the liberals of the board bash him so much.

Offline Ripsnort

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Am I the only conservative who does not love Bush?
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2003, 11:58:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
I support his actions in Afghanistan and Iraq.  I think we should be heavy militarily when it is in our best interest.

I think you see him defended so much by many of the conservatives of the board because the liberals of the board bash him so much.


Its the only thing they understand Marlet (Force)...they don't understand our Liberal "Koom-by-ya" and see that as a weakness, but our liberals haven't figured that out yet so they just send more terrorists into the country. Times are a-changing..we're not out of the woods, but soon many will learn that force is sometimes imminent and the "lets be friends" crap don't work with these guys (terrorists)

Offline GtoRA2

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Am I the only conservative who does not love Bush?
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2003, 12:00:26 PM »
Mart
 Yeah I think your right, I do not remeber things being like this when Clinton was the pres.

I did not hate Clinton, but Bush seems to bring that out in some people, my lib friend, hates him.

 I do no think Bush is doing a horible job or anything, but I do not agree with many of the things he has done. If I had a better choice I would not vote for him but I do not think I am going to have a better choice in 2004, lol.

 The only dem who evokes hate in me like I see some on this board have for Bush is hillery... she sucks...

she is not half the man her husband was lol.

Offline fd ski

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Am I the only conservative who does not love Bush?
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2003, 12:00:57 PM »
Quote

My dad was a cabinet maker. His shop closed, and when he had to seek work, he could not find any. He was an amazing cabinet maker, but all the shops in the area that where open when he was looking for work, where production shops and didn't need a skilled man with 20 years of custom cabinet work. They wanted illegals, or at least Mexicans cause they didn't have to pay them real money. He ended up in a crappy job, making desktops for cubes.


Just regarding this portion, let me ask the following question:

Who's fault is it ?
Mexicans ? Or the businessman who would rather BREAK THE LAW to save few bucks ?
Immigrant will do whatever it takes to feed himself or family.
As long as american public is willing to look the other way while businesses are being run ILLIGALY ( mind you, not contributing taxes either !!! ), there will always be illigal immigration.

In THEORY, you should not be able to get a job ANYWHERE without valid SSN number. Those businesses you speak off broke the law by hiring people with fake SSNs ( and knowing about it ) and then not paying taxes. They are screwing mexicans, your father, you and all of us.

Secondly, if there will be no demand for mexicans or other illigal immigrants, the supply will likely to be affected as well.

Offline GtoRA2

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Am I the only conservative who does not love Bush?
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2003, 12:09:15 PM »
fd ski,
 I have nothing against people trying to provide for their families, I just think they should be able to do it legally, IE through a program that brings them in legally to do these jobs.

I think it sucks we let corporations exploit people, and I think its OUR fault for allowing it.

I agree with your second point as well, there is a demand, the demand is not going to go away, but I think instead of looking the other way for cheap lettuce we should have a program to let them come and do it legally, that way we can at least screen for criminals.

Offline Ripsnort

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Am I the only conservative who does not love Bush?
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2003, 12:15:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by fd ski


In THEORY, you should not be able to get a job ANYWHERE without valid SSN number. Those businesses you speak off broke the law by hiring people with fake SSNs ( and knowing about it ) and then not paying taxes. They are screwing mexicans, your father, you and all of us.

Secondly, if there will be no demand for mexicans or other illigal immigrants, the supply will likely to be affected as well.


Agreed!

Offline Mighty1

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Am I the only conservative who does not love Bush?
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2003, 12:48:05 PM »
I didn't vote FOR Bush I voted AGAINST Gore.

That being said I think Bush is doing better than what was expected.
I have been reborn a new man!

Notice I never said a better man.

Offline Erlkonig

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Am I the only conservative who does not love Bush?
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2003, 12:53:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GtoRA2
Mart
 Yeah I think your right, I do not remeber things being like this when Clinton was the pres.


"Be assured, there is no hate for Clinton in America. Never!  Those who say there is are sick in the mind.  I say to you, such talk is not true.  It's a product of their sick minds."

Offline Frogm4n

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Am I the only conservative who does not love Bush?
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2003, 12:58:23 PM »
i think alot of libs' hate bush just because of one factor. The man is an arogant pompous love muffin. i remember when he was lieing about being a uniter not a divider. Now if you stand in his way on any issue right or wrong you get mowed over. you watch his speech's and it seems like he is talking to 6 year olds. Its driving a wedge in this country far deeper then monica could have.

Offline Martlet

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Am I the only conservative who does not love Bush?
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2003, 01:01:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Frogm4n
i think alot of libs' hate bush just because of one factor. The man is an arogant pompous love muffin. i remember when he was lieing about being a uniter not a divider. Now if you stand in his way on any issue right or wrong you get mowed over. you watch his speech's and it seems like he is talking to 6 year olds. Its driving a wedge in this country far deeper then monica could have.


I assume you hated Clinton for the same reasons, then.