Thoughts about head ons

[SOB]

Squad night tomorrow, and I'm already a dweeb...I think I need to see how many HO & chute kills I can score in one night.  


SOB
LuftWaffles...
...make the best targets
...gripe the most about crap I couldn't care less about
...are best served with .50 cal in their tail...or canopy...or nose!  

[Exile]

 

Originally posted by pzvg:
I think it's time to bring some real understanding to this nearly mindnumbing endless train of thought.
I will fire at you headon,I will fire at you from your six,I will take the long range high-deflection crossing shot,I will vulch you as you take off, I will turn into you when you come in close.
In short I will do whatever it takes to beat you in ATA (not warping,or other "game" things) Dweeb? unfair? aww shaddup, dead people can't talk.
"Roam your assigned airspace,sight the enemy,shoot him down,the rest is rubbish"
 -Manfred Von Richthofen, a Dweeb's dweeb.

I have to agree with ol Manfred here. There are no rules about when or where you can target your opponent. Granted HO's are a risky shot, but if I have an opportunity to take a shot, I'm gonna take it.

[Soulyss]

Granted HO probably require less skill than to survive a drawn out engagement, I allways considered them allmost like an aircraft attribute, some are better at it than others.  If you're aircraft is has good durability and firepower like say the P47, it can be a great tool to help even the odds against a superior pilot or a quick way to negate an E disadvantage.  That being said I don't see the point in accepting a HO in a fight where I clearly have the advantage.  



[This message has been edited by Soulyss (edited 08-08-2000).]

[Toad]

What is an HO?

99% of the time, you are not seeing what the other guy is seeing.

I got accused of an HO the other night. From my side, I had a 90 degree planform shot, looking straight down on the guy as he flew under me.

He started above me, pointed his nose straight at me from about 4K out. As he dove and closed, I pulled up, rolled inverted and split on him. Got a shot at about 400 yds, miscalculated the necessary lead and missed him cleanly.  

I rolled back to the initial heading from my near-vertical dive and left him holding his joystick. He could never catch me, so I got to listen to the "HO dweeb" taunt.

A HO shot? Nope, not on my end.

That's why all this is so pointless.

1. HO's WERE used in WW2 combat. Accept it.
2. You have absolutely no clue as to how the shot is looking to your opponent.
3. "No HO" is a gameplay concept, not an ACM concept. See Andy Bush's remarks above and in previous posts.
4. If you don't LIKE HO's....move your airplane!

...and that's all I have to say about that!

[Wanker]

Ya, and we all know what happened to Manfred ol' boy, don't we. Perhaps if he had let Lt. May go free instead of chasing him halfway to London just to get a kill, he may have lived to see another day.

It's interesting to note that Richtofen never once had a HO kill.

Soulyss, thank you for shedding some intelligence to this thread. That's exactly what I've been trying to say.

[This message has been edited by banana (edited 08-08-2000).]

[eskimo]

I do HOs when I feel that I need to.
I win most HOs.

I also have had great vertical advantages over enmy planes, only to have them suprisingly turn it into a HO that they win.  And all I can think of is <S> to the victor!

eskimo

[Wanker]

Eskimo said:  

I also have had great vertical advantages over enmy planes, only to have them suprisingly turn it into a HO that they win. And all I can think of is <S> to the victor!

Right you are, Eskimo. Nothing wrong with a HO in this case. But, when two people meet pretty much head-on at co-alt, what should take place(IMHO) is a great duel to the death using any and all manuevers. So many great fights are wasted because one(or both) of the pilots decided to come into the merge with guns blazing.

Ya, I know, if I was worth my salt I could avoid a HO in that situation. I dunno fellas, I'm prolly the biggest whiner about HO's, but that's only because I like a good fight, whether I win or not. A HO kill at co-alt merge just ruins a potentially awesome, and memorable, fight.

[Lance]

I agree with everyone who isn't squeaking about head ons.  They happen, so deal with it.  No one is going to change their flying style to better suit someone elses.

Soulyss also brings up a good point, and that is that some planes are certainly better suited to engage in a head on than others.  Those planes also have weaknesses in other areas.  Everyone knows that it is a caveat of war to exploit your opponents weaknesses while avoiding his strengths relative to your own.  If you are in a plane with small guns and little armor, then you are exposing your weaknesses to your opponents strengths by giving the pilot of a heavily armed & armored plane the opportunity for a head on.  That is a big (and potentially fatal) error that YOU have made.  It isn't the other pilot's fault that you play into one his strong suits -- its yours.

Gordo

[Karnak]

banana,
If I'm in a Spit IX, co-alt with a Bf109G-10 and I don't HO, he's simply going to extend away, gain alt and come back at me from a position of advantage.  In that case, due to the wide separation of capabilities of the two craft, a HO on initial merge is my best bet at survival.

I could no more expect him to get in a turn fight with my Spit than he should expect me to let him BnZ me in his Bf109G-10.

In neither case do we get a nice series of ACM moves.  The potential for the ACM only exists if the two aircraft or near matches in each performance area.

Sisu
-Karnak

[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 08-08-2000).]

[Dusky]

IMO HOs are a minor thing to whine about... There are about 1 of 20 cases where HO CANNOT be avoided. If you are a skilled pilot then you can see wheather the enemy is going to make it to HO or not. The E loss of avoiding the HO is minimal and if you are fighting a HO pilot he is sure to be less skilled than you are. As for defending against high cons... I know it can be bithcy but even the most skilled pilots can fall to E traps and bounces can be easily avoided with a bit of E.
Just everyone who starts whining about HO (not necessarily meaning this thread) mark this old quote: "It takes two to HO".

Dusk

[Torque]

I like a good HO with fishnet stocking milehigh pumps red lipstick........ .

[Wanker]

You guys are right.

It's time to bring out the HO in me, afterall. I don't have the best aim, but I can spray A Tiffy's complement of Hispanos with the best of them.

Thanks for helping me see the light.  

[Cobra]

banana, you of all people should know that Ron Jeremy likes a good HO!

Cobra

[Wanker]

"Excuse me while I whip this out"  

[Pyro]

From James Howard's book, Roar of the Tiger:

"In Blakeslee's briefing that afternoon, he explained we had three tactics to use against the enemy: (1) shoot down the enemy plane (or be shot down), (2) make the enemy fighter break off an attack first, (3) if the enemy fighter fails to break off, continue on a collision course.

We were stunned.  Did he mean we should deliberately ram the enemy head-on?

Blakeslee hesitated for emphasis and then said, 'We never turn away from a head-on attack.  If we do, the word will get back to Luftwaffe pilots that the Americans break first in a head-on pass.  They will then have a psychological advantage of knowing beforehand what we will do.'

A young pilot in the front row asked what would happen if the German pilot followed the same orders.  Blakeslee looked down at the young man with a contemptuous smile and said, 'In that case you've earned your flight pay the hard way!'"

So there you have it.  For all Blakeslee's accolades, Squadron Commander of an Eagle Squadron, 4th FG CO, double-ace, more combat flying  hours (1000) than any other American, flew Spitfires, P-47s, and P-51s, etc. we really see that he is just a 'dweeb' of the highest magnitude.  He not only practiced, he preached.  



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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations