Bush invented salmon

[capt. apathy]

I don't mean to trivialize the issue. Polution is and has been a serious problem in this country for a long time and I understand little about it other than it's bad. Still, if it comes to choosing between staying warm in the winter and having a job vs no smog, I think most will choose the former. Maybe someday everyone can have both.

but it's not an either or problem.  I work in the power industry, and when the clean air act came into effect the number of available jobs went way up.  

the thing is that it doesn't stop the building of plants.  people will not stand for turning on the switch and having no power (the oposition to building permits for new power plants in california almost completely stopped after the first few blackouts).

the work increases because the restrictions don't restrict power they restrict emisions.  we have the technology to greatly reduce these imissions (electrostatic precipitators, air scrubbers, and bag-houses to name a few).

all these require men to build them and that means jobs.  thats good for the economy in the areas around the plants and in the areas the workers live (most travel temporarily to the area while building a new plant or upgrading emission systems).  

this is also a much more fair situation.  without emission controls people who use the power save some cash on the bill while those who live in the area of the plant (and down wind from the stack) suffer.  and since most power isn't made where it is used you end up with a very small group (they generally try not to put these plants where many people live) paying the most for something that benifits others who live elsewhere.

and eventually the pollution spreads out enough that all our kids can breath some.

[Mike_2851]

Originally posted by Silat
Dont forget he wants to let Lumber $Corps$ cut old growth in the middle of forests to stop forest fires.....Cut all the trees then their will be no forest fires.

I work in the wood products industry and have seen tens of thousands of jobs lost, families devestated, and communities ghosted by people with similar thinking as yours (as stated here). I see that you are also from Oregon, why are the state budget and school systems in such bad shape? The answer is that simply in the past (decades ago-pre spotted owl), the state and local school districts made income off of stumpage fees created by timber sales and harvests. A SENSEABLE and MANAGED healthy forest initiative that includes timber harvest will SAVE forests and provide for the economy and community, and yes-overall forest health and sustainability. The days of "clear cutting" are long gone.

Where is your "old growth" now pal? IT'S BURNING UP!!!

What is your house built out of? your deck?  I'll be willing to bet that the amount of things you use or enjoy every day that come from timber would boggle your mind.

This is where I say don't get me started, and I mean no offence, but it is too late-I started. And yes I do take this subject personally.

[Mini D]

Hey Capt. Apathy... notice how the rest of your posts have nothing to do with the first one?  Say something shockingly stupid then try to make a point.  It just doesn't come off right.

MiniD

[capt. apathy]

actually I only had one other post after the first one,  30 or so posts later the subject of the thread had taken a turn and I responded to it.

 I'm not some sort of anal bbs cop who insists that everybody elses post stay on the subject of the origanal post.  the conversation evolved off the original point and I went with the conversation.

so. whats the point of your last post and what does it have to do with bush and salmon?

[Mike_2851]

Yep! you're right my reply was not in line with the subject of the post. I was replying to a reply that was a "hot button" issue with me personally.

My Appologies  

[Mini D]

Sorry captain... not insisting you post on the subject... just pointing out you had to abandon it because it was pathetically stupid.  A totally inaccurate observation followed up by a sermon on the environment as some sort of cover.  

Well.. if it makes you feel better... Carry on.  Oh... you might want to think about the sermon on the environment the next time you flush your toilet.

MiniD

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by Mike_2851
I work in the wood products industry and have seen tens of thousands of jobs lost, families devestated, and communities ghosted by people with similar thinking as yours (as stated here). I see that you are also from Oregon, why are the state budget and school systems in such bad shape? The answer is that simply in the past (decades ago-pre spotted owl), the state and local school districts made income off of stumpage fees created by timber sales and harvests. A SENSEABLE and MANAGED healthy forest initiative that includes timber harvest will SAVE forests and provide for the economy and community, and yes-overall forest health and sustainability. The days of "clear cutting" are long gone.

Where is your "old growth" now pal? IT'S BURNING UP!!!

Actually, forests burning down is part of the cycle, from the ashes comes a new fertile forest.

Chop down a tree, plant a tree. Chop all you want, just plant more. It isn't about saving trees, it's about replacing them.

The problem in the past was that, like mining companies, they would take what they wanted and leave the land a mess. If the logging industry is to survive, they must replenish what they chop down, or the wells will run dry. The logging industry must survive, or we will be paying $25 for a 2x4. As long as "SENSEABLE and MANAGED" means replacing, i'm all for it. Don't blame people's way of thinking, it was the "clear cutting" by the industry that got us into the situation in the first place. England, at one time, had beautiful oak forests.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by AKIron
Still, if it comes to choosing between staying warm in the winter and having a job vs no smog, I think most will choose the former. Maybe someday everyone can have both.

Well luckily, not only does the oil we burn to keep us warm, it also changes the climate.  

With the miracle of global warming we soon won't have to worry about winter at all, just feeding our selves and surving one climatalogical desaster to the next.  Whoo hoo!

[Karnak]

My my, look at all the angst.

It doesn't look like Bush was directly taking credit for the salmon increase, but he was insinuating that his policies were partialy responsible.  Why mention it otherwise?  Especially in the context of "We're going in the right direction"?

Of course you can never expect a Conservative to stand by while a Liberal misrepresents something.  Too bad Conservatives are so hypicritical in this regard.

[Dowding]

Never a new or constructive idea born from a liberal.

Like electoral representation for women, free health care at the point of receipt or racial equality?

Maybe you're right.

[Fatty]

Slavery was ended by a republican

Jeannette Rankin, first woman elected to the house of reps who led the final push to ratify 19th?  Republican.

That other thing is some English experiment gone horribly wrong, you can keep it.

[Snork]

Originally posted by AKIron
Was that the same LBJ that proliferated and prolonged the Vietnam war to line his pockets?

Excellent point! It's not the liberals or conservatives that muck things up, it's presidents from Texas!!

[Dowding]

Yes, it's gone horribly wrong. Ever used it?

Probably a little too much to expect anything other than a US-centric response, but slavery, women and voting have existed outside the US for rather a long time.

"Republican = conservative, liberal = democrat" simpleton politics doesn't hold much sway outside the US either.

[Fatty]

Yes, how provincial of me to take a thread based on a US president's statement about fish in the US to be about the US.

[Dowding]

Like I said "Probably a little too much to expect anything other than a US-centric response..."

Still, have you ever used the NHS?