an another usefull patch

[Animal]

How can someone get so angry arguing about how many bombs a plane could carry.

Some people need to go outside, light a join, drink a beer, and get laid.

[grizz]

Originally posted by Animal:
(snip)...

Some people need to go outside, light a join, drink a beer, and get laid.

Is it ok if I stay in? It's cold and snowing. The rest sounds good tho. Thanks for the suggestion.  

[eddiek]

Ah, but Frenchy, that is the way it really happened, no?    
Hey, I can understand R4M's displeasure, though not to the degree he seems to be going.  Heck, nothing in AH is perfect, nor will it ever be.  There will always be someone griping or saying "this isn't right" or "that shouldn't be that way"....on all sides.
Frenchy, you and I BOTH know that if AH modeled the P47 to outdive the 109's and 190's the way both Axis and Allied pilots said it did, we would NEVER hear the end of it.       It isn't like the LW had ANY decent pilots left when the Jug started operation over the Continent, that is why the highest scoring USAAF aces in Europe flew Jugs, and also why the 56th FG was one of the highest scoring outfits in the USAAF ETO.  
(Turns sarcasm mode OFF)
R4M, on a personal note, and not intended to flame or put you down........but.........
it would appear (at least to me) that each time HTC comes out with a patch, or a new version, or an idea, you are one of the first to look for flaws?  Especially if it might be a "flaw" in a LW bird?  You might be the king of all LW records, all LW data regarding WW2, but don't you think Pyro and the others are sitting on a pile of data too?  I can tell you from just walking by his office when I visited there, the man has DATA, not just one or two book, not just a dozen.......hell, I DROOLED just thinking about all the info in that one room!  
What do you want from Pyro and the HTC crew, every loadout that you can find a picture of or vague reference to?    
If that is what you want, hey, more power to you.......but don't be surprised or offended if and when the same principle is applied to all the AH planeset, Allied and Axis both.  What criteria they use to determine if a particular loadout is modeled I have not a clue, but I can assure they do their best to be "fair" about it.

[ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: eddiek ]

[GRUNHERZ]

Ok... You post a picture thats supposed to show a P47 with 2 1000lbs bombs and a 500lb bomb ans rockets.

The picture obviously shows 2 500lbs and and 1 250lbs bombs.

I call you on it and you ridicule me, why do that?

If you dont care which bombs a plane carries why all the resistance to FW190 carrying more bombs or bigger bombs which it did carry.


Im not sure if you mean me animal im not angry, I barely ever JABO anyway so what bombs are on planes dont bother me that much.

What bothers me in general is that LW planes dont get their possible bombs while USA planes get impossible loads.

It bothers me that some people ask for changes to P47 FM and provide evidence on BBS, then only a few weeks later HTC gives a patch. toejam IIRC Pyro immedatly responded in this thread and said they would check out the data.

But when people ask for changes in FW190 and give evidence on BBS (The official speed charts for 190A5 that show the AH one is 15mph too slow on the deck, and no Funked the AH 190A5 doesnt model an underweight 190G anymore that was fixed in v1.04), they get ridiculed attacked and made fun of as whiners, and HTC ignores them.
And HTC doesnt fix it, or at least not yet.
HTC didnt even respond in that thread IIRC.

Im frustrated about that.

[Toad]

I had hoped we were progressing beyond this.

Guess not yet.

Six people. Wonderful game. CONSTANT updates. FIFTY CENTS A DAY... FIFTY CENTS A DAY!

Where else are you guys getting that kind of entertainment value?

Do you REALLY think these SIX highly competent and considerate people WON'T get to all these things you mention at sometime?

Do we have to have this constant nit-picking between the various player camps?

It does remind me of the "mommy, mommy.. Billy got a bigger piece of cake!" tantrums.

There's plenty of cake.. it's just not all on the table yet.

Breathe deep. Repeat: "This is a GREAT game.. especially for FIFTY CENTS A DAY.

Thank you, and good night.

[SFRT - Frenchy]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
Ok... You post a picture thats supposed to show a P47 with 2 1000lbs bombs and a 500lb bomb ans rockets.

The picture obviously shows 2 500lbs and and 1 250lbs bombs.

I call you on it and you ridicule me, why do that?

If you dont care which bombs a plane carries why all the resistance to FW190 carrying more bombs or bigger bombs which it did carry.


What bothers me in general is that LW planes dont get their possible bombs while USA planes get impossible loads.

It bothers me that some people ask for changes to P47 FM and provide evidence on BBS, then only a few weeks later HTC gives a patch. toejam IIRC Pyro immedatly responded in this thread and said they would check out the data.

Im frustrated about that.

- Grun, please let me know where I said the bombs were 1000 lbs and 500lbs? I was answering to RAM who were talking about not flying with bombs AND rockets.

- I never offered any resistance to LW having whatever load out they want, there again, please show me a proof of what you acuse me of.

- I posted the 300HP bug on the 10-03-2000 11:30 AM ... The bug was fixed more than 1 year later!!! I don't see why you claim it was fixed right away in the next patch.

Those 3 points above may be part of the reasons I ridiculed you. When LW proposes something, I never ever "squeak about it", "Say it was impossible", "analyse the pictures with a loop in search of UFO", "ask to provide a proof".
I would appreciate to be treated with the same courtesie as I displayed toward LW guys. It's a basic educational concept, isn't it?  

[mjolnir]

I haven't ever visited the HTC center or seen Pyro's office full of data, but I know these guys do a great job checking into historical accuracy.  If I wanted to gripe and moan about something not being fixed, I can prove the B-17G is way undermodelled.  But there's no need to here, and especially not like this.  I'm pretty sure there's a forum dedicated to providing HTC with information regarding planes (loadouts, flight models, top speeds, whatever).  This thread is for thanking HT and the crew for putting out another great patch and fixing problems as they can.  Personally, I love what they've done with this sim over the last 2 years, and this patch is no different.

Thank you HT and gang, keep up the great work!

[Sancho]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
It bothers me that some people ask for changes to P47 FM and provide evidence on BBS, then only a few weeks later HTC gives a patch. toejam IIRC Pyro immedatly responded in this thread and said they would check out the data.

Actually, it has been over one year since this issue was first brought up:
 http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum9/HTML/000849.html

<edit> Frenchy beat me to it.  

[ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: Sancho ]

[Buzzbait]

S!

Ok, time for a P-47 whine to balance out the Luftwobble whines...  

Ahem...  (Takes a deep breath)

  Where's my paddle blade prop on the D11??????   Where's my paddle blade prop on the D11????   Where's my paddle blade prop on the D11?????   Where's my paddle blade prop on the D11?????  (etc.)

Ok, karma balanced in the world... time to move on to the next series of whines...  

[Buzzbait]

S!

By the way... you notice the Allied P-47's in BIG WEEK are 1943 era planes.  Since we don't have the paddle blade option.

Bring the P-47D21 to ACES HIGH!

[Karnak]

Thanks for the patch HTC.

Love the 500lbers in the Mossie's bomb bay.  

[vector at work]

Why on earth it's always between Luftwaffe and USAAF?
bring on Spitfire XIV !
.. or atleast faster IX...
......or something....
Talking about hijacking threads..
 

Anyway, great to see jug with correctly modelled performance, gotta try it out!

Now we all have to check our 6 more often, there could be 56th FG with those nasty Runbolts!
 

-vector

[ 11-30-2001: Message edited by: vector at work ]

[R4M]

Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy:
About the 1,000# bombs and the 10 rockets :
   (Image removed from quote.)  

wow...what a nice P47N5, frenchy. I thought we were talking about a P47D30?.

what?...why does it matter?...maybe because those two models had a ---completely--- different wing?...

just maybe?   . NO, sir, indeed they had a different wing.

I've already said the P47D could take rockets and wing bombs at the same time. Just not 10 HVARS, you know. And I would think that no P47D ever took off with an overload for its machineguns, while carrying 2500lbs of bombs at the same time. Indeed very heavy jabos sometimes flew with just 6MGs...with a good reason I'd guess.

In AH you can take off with 2500lbs of bombs, 10HVARS and 8 overloaded machineguns-------->highly unrealistic.


About the 190F8 wing racks...they were quite used. One of the major production series, the U1, was dedicated to the long range/heavy jabo role, in wich took the place and role of the Fw190G8.

SO...all 190F8/U1s were fitted with wing ETC503 racks. BUT also several night jabo Rüsatze of the 190F8 ALSO carried the ETC503 rack. BUT also several day long range jabo versions of the Fw190A5 could ALSO carry the ETC503 racks (not to mention they could delete the cowl mounted MGs too). BUT also several day long range jabo versions of the Fw190A8 could carry the same racks (the A8 was not used with them operationally tho, AFAIK). BUT also, a whole series of the Fw190 (the G series) used those racks.

"prototype"?. Dont make me laugh. There were thousands of Fw190s with those racks. We don't have a G8 in AH, but we have an A5 and a F8. I dont have much problem with the lack of that equipment for the 190A5, if the F8 can carry it. But why do we lack the wing bombs for the F8?

 They were used operationally. The 190F8/U1 was a quite big batch of the 190F8 production. It would be useful for the MA and CT, and would make a 190F8 a worthy election for jabo (right now the 190A8 is better jabo than the 190F8, wich is sad and shameful). yet we lack them.

The A&V forum is full of threads discussing this matter. Pyro has ---NEVER--- got into one of them to say why doesn't the F8 have that option (or the A5, for that matter).

For those who asked to a revision of the D30 FM, well, the FM needed a double check and seems that Pyro's test version did not have the bug. But he had already looked into it quite some time ago!. Read his answer in the thread in the Aircraft&Vehicles forum.

For those asking for a paddle prop for the D11, at least you have a reason (pyro has stated it several times). You can agree or disagree with that reason (I disagree with it), BUT AT LEAST HE HAS SAID SOMETHING ABOUT IT!.

But he's said not a word about the F8 wing loadouts, tho. Neither about the wing bombs for the Fw190A5, or for the italian fighters....etc etc etc. Nothing. Nil. Nada.

Great  .

Yap, I'm pissed. But I'd think this time I have a point.

[ 11-30-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

[Seeker]

Which patch will remove the highly unrealistic trim controls from the 109?

[R4M]

Originally posted by Seeker:
Which patch will remove the highly unrealistic trim controls from the 109?

we discussed it in the other forum not so long ago...

the answer is YES, just after they remove the highly unrealistic kommandogërat from all planes except the Fw190, and the highly unrealistic ammo counters from all planes except the german ones.  


Personally, I'm all for removing the trim tabs wich were not usable during flight. But that'd require some modification in some plane's FM too (the Fw190 had fixed wing tabs for a quite GOOD reason   )

[ 11-30-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]