Author Topic: Anyone knows baseball history?  (Read 348 times)

Offline miko2d

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Anyone knows baseball history?
« on: August 29, 2003, 01:45:14 PM »
Majority of the people I know seem to be under impression that Jackie Robinson was the first black athlete in History to play in a Major League Team alongside the white athletes.

 It seems that US education presents the racial relationships in US as a steady progress since the end of the Civil War rather than taking a nosedive in 1890s and being at their worst in 1900-1920s.

 Forgetting the black athletes that played in the Major League in the second half of the 19th century and presenting J.R. as the one to "break the color barrier" conveniently omits that dark spot on the US history.

 Are there resources that contain racial composition or pictures of the Major League teams? Names? Teams?

 miko

Offline Mini D

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« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2003, 01:53:25 PM »
Forming an oppinion then trying to find data to support it.

Classic.

MiniD

Offline majic

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Offline miko2d

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« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2003, 02:49:06 PM »
Mini D: Forming an oppinion then trying to find data to support it.
 Classic.




 You think just because I did not mention the sources of my opinion (one of which is a notable american historian and sociologist, btw as well as BlackBaseball.com mentioning two names - and more), I do not have sources or do not know names?  And you are so sure you don't even ask for explanation before making an allegation .


majic:  http://www3.sympatico.ca/stewart.brown/Negro_Leagues.html

 Thanks, majic.

 

 The site you referred me to is about Negro Leagues and it contains a statement that sounds like contradiction to me:

 If Moses Walker, a catcher with the Toledo Blue Stockings was "the only black to play Major League Baseball until 1947", the statement that "The owners began barring blacks after Moses Walker had been driven from the game by prejudice and injuries in 1885" makes little sence.
 They were not barring blacks before but did not have any except for that one?

 Also, it was my impression that there were more than one black player in Major League.

 Here is from BlackBaseball.com:
Quote
When baseball attained professinal status the following season, pro teams were not bound by the amateur association's ruling, and during the 19th century black ballplayers appeared on integrated teams and some black teams played in integrated leagues. Two brothers, Moses Fleetwood Walker and Welday Walker, even played in the major leagues in 1884. But gradually, black players began to be excluded from the white leagues and by the beginning of the new century, there were no black players in organized baseball.


 So we have a second name and one would hardly call a process of getting rid of just two black players "gradual" - so there is an implication there must have been more of them than just those two.

 miko
« Last Edit: August 29, 2003, 02:55:52 PM by miko2d »

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2003, 02:58:19 PM »
Its not a secret Miko. The "Gentlemen's Agreement" that excluded Black players was put into effect in the 1890's and was eventually broken by Branch Ricky and Jackie Robinson in 1945 (when Jackie was originally recruited to the Dodger's AAA farm club).

What exactly was your point anyway?

Offline Gadfly

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« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2003, 03:24:47 PM »
His point is that americans are bad people.  Jeez, how much plainer does he need to state it?

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2003, 03:31:07 PM »
If you're looking for names, many Black players of the 19th century claimed to be Cuban in order to "pass".

Offline Mini D

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« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2003, 03:43:06 PM »
He seems to be ignoring the fact that he's proving the counter to his own point.  Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier in Major League Baseball.  Miko's simply quibling about when the barrier was established.

Either that or he's trying to prove that "the racial relationships in US" haven't been in a state of "steady progress since the end of the Civil War" by citing bad feelings in the late 1800's.  Which, in and of itself is pretty damn stupid.

MiniD

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2003, 04:27:23 PM »
Here you go Miko... racial progress of Blacks in America:

pre Civil War - Slaves nuff said.
Immediately post Civil War - Many Black Congressmen and State Legislators elected in the South.
1870 -1880 White Backlash begins
1880-1900 Stomped back into their "place"
1900 - 1920 Samo samo
1920 - 1940 In some cases even worse (see Tulsa Riots)
1940's  - The War - nobody cared about civil rights. German and Italian prisoners were given preferential treatment over Black American soldiers.
1945-1965 Blacks start to assert their rights. Culminating in the 1965 Civil rights Act.
1965 to Present - Slow progress

Did I leave anything out?

Offline majic

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« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2003, 04:45:35 PM »
Your right Miko, the site is not very clear.  I am guessing, but I think this is because there were several "major leagues" back then.

Offline Martlet

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« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2003, 04:53:03 PM »
miko is the number 2 reason that I can't wait until they start cracking down on immigrants.

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2003, 04:59:03 PM »
Baseball History Quiz

Here you go Miko

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2003, 05:04:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Baseball History Quiz

Here you go Miko


edit - Got 20 of 22 missed #7 (shame on me) and #18.