Look forward to Gulf War Syndrome II

[wulfie]

Originally posted by Raubvogel
Depleted uranium rounds actually "self sharpen" as they penetrate armor, increasing the penetration; as opposed to tungsten and other metals which mushroom upon impact.

Standard Army training concerning depleted uranium warns soldiers to stay at least 50 meters from a vehicle suspected to have been hit with DU munitions. We receive yearly training on precautions to take and signs to identify DU munitions. Army doctrine calls for wearing gloves and donning protective mask if you must work in the area of a DU hit vehicle.  

DU is heavy, I seriously doubt that the dust would be blown very far at all.

Personally, I'd rather fight a war knowing that we had weapons to put just about anything out of commission and increase my chances for survival than be equipped with something that is "safer" but might not kill the bad guys as well. Just my 2 cents.

Well you learn something new every day. I never knew they 'self-sharpened'. Do good guy mad scientists kick butt or what?

When did you get the 'stay 50 meters away' training? Before or after the '91 Gulf War?

Mike/wulfie

[Fishu]

Originally posted by Raubvogel
DU is heavy, I seriously doubt that the dust would be blown very far at all.

Personally, I'd rather fight a war knowing that we had weapons to put just about anything out of commission and increase my chances for survival than be equipped with something that is "safer" but might not kill the bad guys as well. Just my 2 cents.

If as big particles of sand which can be seen with pure eye can be blown without a sand storm, I don't see why smaller particles of DU couldn't in the case it creates small particles upon impact.
Heavier or not, at a certain size it'll be light enough.
Most likely these particles created by DU round would be very small and numerous.

The impact force at which the DU round comes at, is quite extreme.
As seen from the battlefield, after the impact it can go through a tank and cause buildup of heat so fast the unbuttoned tank commanders can fry too fast to make a move and stick there burned, as if nothing had happened.

Has anyone ever studied what blows out of the tanks when DU projectile hits it and how much of the projectile is left after going through the object and how much is gone who knows where?


What comes to the usefulness of DU rounds during gulf war, can be argued whether those were all that necessary, considering how non-DU rounds would been still an overkill against whatever the Iraqis had.
A-10's perhaps had most use of the DU rounds, considering how their cannon is nowhere near equal to what 120mm tank cannon can throw at the target even without DU rounds.

[capt. apathy]

DU rounds are also pyrophoric - the fragments ignite in air, torching the interior of the target vehicle.

 see the link in my previous post

DU is heavy, I seriously doubt that the dust would be blown very far at all.

after it ignites it would be thoroughly atomized, no problem getting or keeping it airborne.  also in this form it would be at it's most dangerous, as it would be easily ingested through the lungs.

[Raubvogel]

Originally posted by wulfie
Well you learn something new every day. I never knew they 'self-sharpened'. Do good guy mad scientists kick butt or what?

When did you get the 'stay 50 meters away' training? Before or after the '91 Gulf War?

Mike/wulfie

Afterwards of course. After I had already climbed all over a bunch of T-72s and T-62s heh.

No Gulf War syndrome here, might be a little demented, but physically I feel fine

[wulfie]

Originally posted by Raubvogel
Afterwards of course. After I had already climbed all over a bunch of T-72s and T-62s heh.

"...great minds, they think alike."

What unit and where were you? I always wonder if I caught a ride at one point or another on one of your unit's whirlybirds.

Mike/wulfie

[jamusta]

Ok I see how it could spread...You can teach an old dog new tricks...It makes since if that much DU rounds were fired.

[Raubvogel]

Wulfie:

I was with the 11th Aviation Brigade, 7th/159th Avn Bn out of Stuttgart Germany. We supported 7th Corps, but mostly the 2nd ACR, 1st CAV, and 1st ID.  Was at IPS#3 (Iraqi Pumping Station 3), Quasimah (sp?), then followed the 2nd ACR on their rampage.  Worked mostly with Q Troop, 2nd ACR myself. Being a Corps asset, my unit was just plugged in wherever we were needed.

[_Schadenfreude_]

Originally posted by capt. apathy
oh, I must remember it wrong.  I thought you supported the war to protect us from those 'weapons of mass destruction' that where a 'clear and present threat' to the welfare and safety of our country (as far as I know that threat is the only excuse for not getting congressional approval for any war).  

but in my defense the war changes themes often enough it's hard to keep up.


we ought to return this war to the store.  it ain't what we where sold.

So anyone found the following yet.

1. Saddam Hussein
2. WMD's
3. Osama
4. Way out of the mess
5. Way to get rid of the morons running America these days

[capt. apathy]

So anyone found the following yet.

1. Saddam Hussein
2. WMD's
3. Osama
4. Way out of the mess
5. Way to get rid of the morons running America these days

no, but I'm fairly sure that #1 & 3 exist

[Holden McGroin]

From a 1999 Rand Report, "A Review of the Scientific Literature as it Pertains to Gulf War Illnesses: Volume 7 Depleted Uranium," indicates no evidence of harmful health effects directly linked to depleted uranium exposures at levels experienced by Gulf War veterans.

Exposure to uranium at high doses can cause kidney problems. However, no increase in kidney disease has been observed in relatively large occupational populations chronically exposed to natural uranium at concentrations above normal ambient levels.

Researchers at the Baltimore VA Medical Center are following the group of Gulf War Veterans with the greatest exposure to depleted uranium, veterans with embedded fragments. Although these individuals have an array of health problems, many of which are related to their combat injuries, researchers say "To date no manifestations of kidney disease attributable to the chemical toxicity of depleted uranium have been found; neither do these individuals appear to have manifestations attributable to radiation effects."

[Tuomio]

Horn, i fail to see any information about DU harms in that .pdf. Besides the radiation claims, which you just denied..Just look at the table of contents and you see what the author represents. Yeah, the title tries to convince you about these silly contents being "myths", but they hardly are represented as such when you read them..

I linked an document, that suggested 300-1400mg of ingested DU dust causing kidney damage. 300mg on cubic meter of air would exceed PEL ratings 1200 fold..THAT would ring some alarms on GI safety regulators wouldnt it? And it STILL would be just whole another issue of ingesting all that stuff on cubic meter of air inside your body.

Capt. Were those limits tightened because of safety marginal increase, or has some new scientific evidence popped up? Many many regulations are pushed to silly (maybe wrong adjective in radiation limits, but still) extents with political reasons. Especially things with "radiation" tag on it. And no matter whats reason, it has nothing to do with depleted uranium and its effects for populations. Id still like to hear whether its more dangerous to breathe lead dust than DU dust, PEL suggests that lead is 5 times more dangerous.

And my other question, is PEL ratings exceeded in Iraq currently? If not, then what is the problem? I know, its the radiation, again, round we go.