Capt. Apathy, thanks for the nice answer!
Originally posted by capt. apathy
most take what their (or any) gov't says with a grain of salt, and are capable of filtering out the hype (or if you can't locate the exact lies at least except the fact that there are likely some in there) and looking for the meat of the issue.
then there are a few fan-boi types that think being patriotic means never questioning what the gov't tries to sell you as truth.
I am the last man to support
everything my government does, and I always try to read between the li[n]es. In Soviet time we had great experience dealing with state propaganda machine, so everything that was officially stated had to be carefully filtered. This applied to Western propaganda too, like Voice of America or Radio Liberty.
My understanding of Patriotism is to always question what
they say, and try to understand what
they need it for. 99% of what any government does is in favour of certain political and economical groups, and usually everything that is done is done at the people's expence. One of the rare times when I have to agree with Lenin is that "state" is an instrument of supressing the personality.
Originally posted by capt. apathy
here's a question I have for you. Is it a two way street? meaning are you capable of seeing that much of what your gov't has told you for most of your life may well be, and very likely is, a load of crap too?
we laugh because we know our gov't(press, corporations, political parties, everyone) distorts facts or outright lies to make their position seem more valid. the fire bit was an exaggeration of this and we can laugh when we see some of the absurdity in ourselves pointed out.
I think I already answered this
So do we. We havetons of satire, but, unfortunately, 95% of American's simply can't read it, and 99% just don't care.
Originally posted by capt. apathy
you often come off on the board as the polar opposite of the people I described earlier who believe everything the gov't tells them, in that you seem to believe wholeheartedly in the position and propaganda spewed by former eastern block counties.
which kinda leaves you catching crap from both of these other groups. as you come off as buying into everything the gov't tells you but just a different gov't than the previous mentioned fan-boi's, so you rile them up and most of the people in the middle don't have much patients for the guys on either extreme so you catch crap from us too.
The problem is that I usually switch into "dumb mode" after facing ignorance and talking to people who just "follow the Party line" (you called them fan-boys)... Unlike you, Americans, we, Soviet people, faced a complete 180-degree turn in official propaganda in late-80s/early-90s. Our official propaganda is still telling us the Western (fogive me please, but I have to call it "enemy") point of view. It means that we, Russians, are forced to believe that we are a nation of freaks, mentaly handicapped, stupid, the nation who killed millions of people and all our achievements are nothing. I simply know it's a lie. In fact, the most serious disappointment for me was understanding that in some cases Soviet propaganda was
true. OTOH - some things in Western propaganda were true too.
I behave like "imbecilic communist bastard" (TM) only to oppose the festival of insanity that I see from some people here. You can call it a "theatre of absurdity" with all tickets sold out.
Originally posted by capt. apathy
anyway, I'm not trying dump on you, or criticize (ok, maybe a little). I just seem to notice that almost every time you post on any subject you get torn-into fairly hard, and thought maybe I could point out to you why that might be.
and again I got the joke, I was just seeing it as someone pointing out something funny about myself and you seem to be seeing it as reinforcing your beliefs through comedy. the true fact as I see it is the joke could just as easily been switched to a former soviet union satellite seeing that the Americans had mastered the use of fire, and it would have been just as funny for exactly the same reason.
Agreed. There are no "black and white". And believe me, 90% of Soviet people could laugh at that joke if it was told about USSR as you suggested.
All this "performance" I take part in here is like an old Soviet joke that I have already told:
American: You don't have butter in stores!
Soviet: And you supress black people!
American: And you don't have meat in stores!
Soviet: And you keep Indians in reservations!
American: And you... And we can kidnap your Brezhnev!
Soviet: Then
YOU will have no butter and meat in stores!
